Quote

 

I used to have a brain capable of so much fluid thought and analysis. Yes there were low times, but I was quick and capable in my own mind. I am convinced my time on SSRI's has utterly destroyed my ability to think coherently and clearly. It has changed who I am. My internal monologues aren't what they were. They are echoes of the past. I can still write fluidly; so there's a silver lining! Parts of me are still me, but I know that I'm missing more than has remained.

 

This is especially infuriating for someone in my position. I now know that I have ADHD. I struggle daily with the trials of this neurodevelopmental disorder. I've struggled with it all my life, unknowingly. It's only this year that I've gained the awareness that I have it.

 

To those that want to know what it is like to have this condition. Imagine wanting to achieve, yet having a brain that fights you all of the way through any task that doesn't give it easy gratification. Imagine being time-blind. A master procrastinator that can't break through that procrasination without a jolt of adrenaline from an emergency of your own making. Imagine being useless with names and memory in general; yet never forgetting a face. Imagine, constantly being reliant on your subconscious to replace the conscious memory systems you don't have; meaning you have to feel your way through recall which leaves you very open to being gaslit.  Imagine being labelled as lazy your entire life; despite that not being the truth nor what you desire most. Imagine watching all those you grew up with furthering their careers and becoming something; whilst you are incapable of achieving anything without risking quick burnout, trauma and losing pieces of yourself in the process. That's ADHD.

 

Interestingly, it's widely recognised that with us ADHDers, we a have a tendency to develop high emotional intelligence as a coping strategy. We also spend so much time in our own brains that our innate abilities to think, critique and come up with out of the box ideas are our strengths. Our brains become both our best friends and worst of enemies.

 

So with this in mind, imagine the effects of the past nine years on citalopram and later sertraline for someone with ADHD. The effects have been to systematically chip away at the parts of myself that made living with this condition bearable and my adult self even remotely functional. My emotional intelligence is impaired by my inability to experience the broad range of emotions I once had. My thinking impaired in so many ways I can't list them all here.

 

I've bounced in and out of this forum over the years. First to help wean myself off of citalopram and now to begin tapering sertraline. Today, I had enough spare dopamine to join and write an introductory piece. Those of you who contribute and have done hard work and gone before us all; I thank you sincerely from the bottom of my heart. You have paved the way for those that come after you so that we may have a smoother ride on this harrowing rollercoaster.

 

To the CEO's of pharmaceutical companies who've peddled these nightmares in pill form I say: you will lose. There are enough tragic stories on here and ongoing lawsuits around the world to know that this ship is gaining speed. I am so angry with what your likely criminal actions have done to my body and my brain without my consent. If I get through this, I hope to help contribute to in some way to making your working lives hell. To speak more broadly, it is your consistent and flagrant disregard of the rules in favour of profit that have begun to erode the very foundations of evidence based medicine. The time has come to do something about this. Perhaps we can begin by breaking these vast monopolies up into smaller pieces? Anyway, that's a discussion for another day.

 

In the meantime, hello to you all on this forum. My name is graininthegrooves and yesterday I began tapering off of sertraline via a hyperbolic regime of 10%. I am now down from 100mg to 90mg.

 

 

Hello there community!

 

It's a pleasure to make your acquaintence. I'm also a Luke from the UK, so to avoid confusion, I've kept my original name from SA! 😛

 

I'm not going to repeat any of the above and bore you all. What I will say additionally is that, I am now at 2.4mg of sertraline three years into my taper that has at points increased suicidal ideation and depressive feelings, but has otherwise been just about manageable (just). I'm eyeing the endgame taper at the end of this year, perhaps summer 2027. Obviously depending on withdrawal symptoms still present. 

 

Last time I attempted to talk to the community over at survivingantidepressants, the first response I received was from a moderator invalidating my ADHD diagnosis using unreliable evidence (quackery). I was then appalled at the apparent lack of empathy displayed by the team on a support forum. I was also appalled at the unwillingness to see the potential damage an approach like this could do to vulnerable minds

 

There was an unwillingness to listen to reason backed by a wealth of scientific evidence. But not only this, considering my healthcare background, and the fact that I have worked as a moderator on a forum for ADHDers run by ADHDers, I knew that culture nurtured in the moderator team is especially important for community health. And, this one felt wrong. It felt like the moderators were burned out. So I decided it wasn't a good environment to get involved in.

 

Had I been in a better headspace, with more empathy like I used to have, younger me would have tried to do something about it. Injustice is unacceptable to me, whether it's personal or witnessed being done to others. But I didn't have the mental spoons to do anything about it. I'd reached out for support in a moment of crisis. I've been just about surviving through my taper, and other myriad of health issues. So I left with a heavy heart, trauma and quite a lot of guilt at not being able to at least try to fix the space.

 

But I see it's now closed? To be blunt, I think that's for the best. I know that's likely to be an unpopular opinion with some, as no doubt there were good and wholesome aspects to that space, there were definitely some wonderfully generous and kind people on there. Some of the users that responded to my thread were so generous and giving. And, nNo doubt the moderator team had set out with good intentions, they were a team of volunteers afterall. Also, some of the resources developed on there have been invaluable to my ongoing taper. But from my experience, I don't think those running it should have been. At least not from the interactions I had. I found that whole experience quite traumatising and it was the opposite of what I needed in that moment.

 

From what I've read of LukeUK's posts on SA, he seems like a man full of empathy, sensitivity, intelligence and open-mindedness. So it seems like a good moment to take a chance, try and reach out, build community and perhaps make some friends who are going through similar problems. This tapering experience has been very isolating; but you guys get that and I know that a community like this can enrich our lives.

 

So I want to give this another try in the hopes that this community fosters better core values and prioritises empathy, a scientific approach and open-mindedness.

 

Anyways I digress, and don't mean for this to be a drama post. But honestly, it is quite good to say this openly and it feels healing. I hope that I haven't crossed any boundaries, and if I have, please do send me a message mods.

 

I'm very happy to be here and hope you're all hanging in there with your tapers. You've got this!

 

graininthegrooves

 

My SA Thread;

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for joining and updating your signature.

 

I've copied some parts of our standard response below- I normally don't for those who have crossed over from SA, but you've indicated that you found the resources there helpful, but also that perhaps you hadn't interacted too much there due to your past experiences on there. You may find some of this information too basic, but it seems worthwhile in case any of it is useful:

 

This is a volunteer-run, community forum aimed at helping those who are tapering and/or experiencing difficulties with psychiatric medications and withdrawl syndrome. We are not medical professionals and cannot offer medical advice. We simply offer support and opinions which you could use as talking points with a medical provider knowledgeable in withdrawing off psychiatric medications.

 

Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules and the disclaimer located here: Guidelines

 

In the mean time this is what I would do if I were you:

 

-Stay Hydrated 

 

-Eat a good clean whole food diet, avoiding processed foods and sugars.

 

-Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and antihistamines and any other psychoactive substances.

 

Supplements are to be avoided initially, as they often irritate our nervous systems. Try to get your nutrition through food.

 

Down the line, you may wish to introduce Fish Oil and Magnesium. Those who can tolerate them have found them calming to the nervous system. Be careful try one at a time and start low and see how you get on should you choose to try them.

 

A daily walk is very important as much as you can manage, if you can manage it. Gets you your fresh air and Vitamin D does wonders for your mind!

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you felt that SA was not welcoming. I have had my own issues with members of staff there- it's probably best that I do not get into it right now. This thread is about your story.

 

  

12 hours ago, graininthegrooves said:

Last time I attempted to talk to the community over at survivingantidepressants, the first response I received was from a moderator invalidating my ADHD diagnosis using unreliable evidence (quackery). I was then appalled at the apparent lack of empathy displayed by the team on a support forum. I was also appalled at the unwillingness to see the potential damage an approach like this could do to vulnerable minds

 

My own judgement is that it is not my place to tell you what your medical condition is or is not.

 

As long as it doesn't stray into being abusive or into completely unfounded claims, I do feel that open discussion about medical diagnoses and practice is positive.

 

I think it's fair to say that many who have been harmed by psychiatric drugs are very wary of any medical diagnoses and labels, particularly those that seem close or adjacent to psychiatric ones. That's not a good excuse for treating anybody negatively, but this wariness is something you'll definitely find amongst prescribed harm support groups if you spend enough time in them.

 

I think I can summarise my view as this:

• I probably don't know any more than you do about ADHD and it is likely that I know less than you do
• On that basis, I'm not going to invalidate your experience
• I will happily discuss ADHD and medical practices surrounding it with you. Our opinions might not always be the same, and that's ok as long as it stays kind and respectful

  

  

12 hours ago, graininthegrooves said:

From what I've read of LukeUK's posts on SA, he seems like a man full of empathy, sensitivity, intelligence and open-mindedness. So it seems like a good moment to take a chance, try and reach out, build community and perhaps make some friends who are going through similar problems. This tapering experience has been very isolating; but you guys get that and I know that a community like this can enrich our lives.

 

I'm not sure you're in the majority there, but I'm glad you feel this way. What I can say is that myself and @Chippy, along with everyone else who helps out want this place to feel like a supportive community and I hope that this is your experience here.

 

  

12 hours ago, graininthegrooves said:

 

 

I'm not going to repeat any of the above and bore you all. What I will say additionally is that, I am now at 2.4mg of sertraline three years into my taper that has at points increased suicidal ideation and depressive feelings, but has otherwise been just about manageable (just). I'm eyeing the endgame taper at the end of this year, perhaps summer 2027. Obviously depending on withdrawal symptoms still present. 

 

I hope that your taper continues to be manageable. As above, hopefully this place can provide good support and also could be a place to share ideas and listen to the thoughts of others on what you plan to do and your situation, should you need it.

 

I would absolutely love it if you felt able to write a success story here one day.

 

  

You've indicated that you want to fight injustice, and that you are based in the UK. I have been doing a fair bit in terms of activism, but I am just a lone person. If and when you feel able, please make a yellow card report detailing your adverse reaction to medications:

Yellow Card | Making medicines and medical devices safer

 

If enough reports are received, the MHRA will take action.

 

Secondly, if you feel able to, you could go and see your local MP, or write to them, and ask that they write to the MHRA and/or the RCPsych on your behalf.

 

I had a meeting with the MHRA in person in early December, and a follow-up is planned for the middle of this year. They have indicated that they plan to update warnings on various drugs and want to review this with me then.

 

 

Anyway, as above, you're very welcome here and I hope that you find this place supportive.

 

Welcome to the forum @graininthegrooves

 

I have linked your SA thread above for you.

 

I hope you find this forum a supportive environment for you and I am sorry you found SA not to be that.

 

I can't guarantee I will agree with you on everything but I can say you are welcome to your opinion and we support a healthy debate on here providing (as Luke has said) it remains that healthy. 🙂 

 

Speak soon

 

Chippy

I should probably add the sentence I meant to add to my initial response as well:

 

I do believe that this is the right place for you, and I hope that in time, you feel the same.

Hi, welcome to the forum. I also have ADHD and really resonate with what you said about spending so much time in our own heads that we become creative, emotionally intelligent thinkers. My biggest tragedy has been that ADHD medication itself harmed my brain to the point where I can't feel deep emotions or think analytically anymore. I have been harmed by Atomoxetine.

 

I am so sorry about your journey so far. I also read the moderator reply to your SA introduction and also feel it was inappropriately judgemental. I developed ADR/WD symptoms late last year and wanted to join SA but when I also browsed the forum I was dismayed by the cold and dismissive approach from moderators towards some posters e.g. telling them "we're not here to help with your medical problems" when someone posted repeatedly wanting advice on a new symptom. I just wanted to share that so you don't feel like the only one who formed that impression

 

I have found this forum very welcoming with a more neutral approach, but still with tolerance for healthy debates. Please feel welcome xx

 

17 hours ago, Luke said:

--standard response--

 

I very much appreciate your signposting me to the standard information you give for new users. I'm doing my best with all of them. As much as I can to keep my nervous system calm. I'm not 100% free of alcohol or caffeine, but considering how much I used to consume different psychoactive substances, I'm in a place now that I'm very proud of. Thanks for the reminder though, I realise you're doing your best for me, and I appreciate that very much!

 

With regards to food, I'm already extremely limited on what I can consume. I highly suspect I have hydrogen sulphide SIBO, although I'm currently going through investigations, and I obviously can't say that for sure. But between having a cow's milk allergy, and avoiding sulphur rich foods, and P450 inhibitors, it really doesn't give me much wiggle room. Which is a shame, I'd really love to be able to optimise my diet further for this withdrawal. But when over 50% of foodstuffs are off limits already, I don't have much of an ability to change more without risking malnutrition!

 

17 hours ago, Luke said:

I'm sorry to hear that you felt that SA was not welcoming. I have had my own issues with members of staff there- it's probably best that I do not get into it right now. This thread is about your story.

 

Aye, and agreed. I felt I needed to post about it to some extent to provide some context with which I was approaching the forum in this introduction. But I have no ill will, nor do I want to stir up trouble. I'm too old for drama :P.

 

Instead, I wanted to see what you'd say when pointing to the issues so I could judge whether or not this place was right for me. I hope you understand.  

 

17 hours ago, Luke said:

My own judgement is that it is not my place to tell you what your medical condition is or is not.

 

As long as it doesn't stray into being abusive or into completely unfounded claims, I do feel that open discussion about medical diagnoses and practice is positive.

 

I think it's fair to say that many who have been harmed by psychiatric drugs are very wary of any medical diagnoses and labels, particularly those that seem close or adjacent to psychiatric ones. That's not a good excuse for treating anybody negatively, but this wariness is something you'll definitely find amongst prescribed harm support groups if you spend enough time in them.

 

I think I can summarise my view as this:

• I probably don't know any more than you do about ADHD and it is likely that I know less than you do
• On that basis, I'm not going to invalidate your experience
• I will happily discuss ADHD and medical practices surrounding it with you. Our opinions might not always be the same, and that's ok as long as it stays kind and respectful

I'm not sure you're in the majority there, but I'm glad you feel this way. What I can say is that myself and @Chippy, along with everyone else who helps out want this place to feel like a supportive community and I hope that this is your experience here.

 

From where I'm sitting this is an entirely healthy, refreshing and logical perspective to have. I like to think of myself as an open-minded fellow by nature and I love being able to chat with people who have differing opinions to me. It's not about trying to change their points of view, but going in with an open-mind and looking to learn from them that I enjoy the most.

 

Weariness is an excellent position to have and I respect that greatly. In healthcare we have something similar called "scope of practice" and understanding where it begins and ends is a challenge that a lot of healthcare workers fail in my experience!

 

I'm even happy to talk about ADHD as a pathology, and whether or not we frame it correctly, and everything else. It's all fascinating and interesting stuff to me. 

 

Where I draw a line, is where I have either experienced or are witnessing direct harm being done. As a moderator, I can see from your response that you take your position of responsibility seriously. And with that comes weight and a dtuy of care to some degree. As such, and as a position of authority (not medical, but a position nonetheless), I have found from personal experience that you have to be careful with what you say and with drawing clearcut lines in the sand. The safest approach is always to be open to discussing whether an particular issue is causing harm.

 

And that wasn't my experience on the previous forum. I may have come across as needing to be right, as sanctimonious; but that wasn't my intention. From my perspective, what I was trying to get across, was my concern with the fact that I'd just been done harm and that if it had remained unchallenged, that same advice was potentially going to do more harm to others in the future. It was an ethical and safety thing.

 

However, since you've just demonstrated in your post an understanding of nuance and a willingness to listen with an open-mind, any concerns surrounding that issue have disappeared. In these situations, I find that if nuance can be preserved and there's always a willingness to listen to evidence and evolve on both sides, discussions can remain not only healthy but mutually beneficial and harm avoided. So sincerely Luke, thank you for putting my mind at ease.

 

17 hours ago, Luke said:

I hope that your taper continues to be manageable. As above, hopefully this place can provide good support and also could be a place to share ideas and listen to the thoughts of others on what you plan to do and your situation, should you need it.

 

I would absolutely love it if you felt able to write a success story here one day.

 

Me too mate, me too. Perhaps in a year or two I'll be in that position. It really does depend at what level my nervous system feels ready to jump off. Part of the problem I think I'm going to have is that I have symptom overlap with this SIBO stuff. So differentiating between the two and therefore knowing when is safe to jump is going to be a challenge to figure out. I will probably just end up dipping my toe in with a 15% drop and hold I think.

 

17 hours ago, Luke said:

You've indicated that you want to fight injustice, and that you are based in the UK. I have been doing a fair bit in terms of activism, but I am just a lone person. If and when you feel able, please make a yellow card report detailing your adverse reaction to medications:

Yellow Card | Making medicines and medical devices safer

 

If enough reports are received, the MHRA will take action.

 

Secondly, if you feel able to, you could go and see your local MP, or write to them, and ask that they write to the MHRA and/or the RCPsych on your behalf.

 

I had a meeting with the MHRA in person in early December, and a follow-up is planned for the middle of this year. They have indicated that they plan to update warnings on various drugs and want to review this with me then.

 

Anyway, as above, you're very welcome here and I hope that you find this place supportive.

I've actually already done this :P. Albeit a number of years ago, and with much less context and awareness at the time. Perhaps it might be prudent to do another?

 

If we're talking drug safety, one interesting thing I've discovered on my travels is where sertraline half-life, liver metabolism and tapering seem to meet together.

 

I think with sertraline specifically, it creates a perfect storm, that may not happen in the same way as other SSRI's. It took me over a year after starting my taper to figure this out. But it is now clear to me from personal experimentation and having cut out all of these inhibitors from my diet/drugs, that they might be a cause of people's tendency to experience extreme yoyoing experiences with sertraline.

 

I'd love to talk to anyone about their individual experiences with P450 cytochrome inhibitors and sertraline in particular. I've found out through painstaking experience that, due to sertraline's particularly short half-life in comparison with other SSRI's, encoupled with the increased occupancy curve at lower doses of the drug, that P450 liver inhibitors can have an outsized and disproportionate effect on withdrawal symptoms. It makes sense mechanistically. 

 

I'd be really curious to see if anyone else has found this to be the case or might be willing to see what effect cutting them out has. 

 

17 hours ago, Chippy said:

Welcome to the forum @graininthegrooves

 

I have linked your SA thread above for you.

 

I hope you find this forum a supportive environment for you and I am sorry you found SA not to be that.

 

I can't guarantee I will agree with you on everything but I can say you are welcome to your opinion and we support a healthy debate on here providing (as Luke has said) it remains that healthy. 🙂 

 

Speak soon

 

Chippy

 

Hi Chippy, thanks for such a warm welcome! I'd never want you to agree with me on everything, how boring would that be haha! Healthy debate is what I love, and respectful conversations are the only kind you'll have from me. Additionally, I'll only ever not let something go if I see it's causing direct measurable harm to someone in front of me or to myself. That's just an ethics/justice thing for me. I hope you can appreciate that :).

 

17 hours ago, Luke said:

I should probably add the sentence I meant to add to my initial response as well:

 

I do believe that this is the right place for you, and I hope that in time, you feel the same.

 

Thanks Luke 🙂 already starting to feel it!

 

15 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

Hi, welcome to the forum. I also have ADHD and really resonate with what you said about spending so much time in our own heads that we become creative, emotionally intelligent thinkers. My biggest tragedy has been that ADHD medication itself harmed my brain to the point where I can't feel deep emotions or think analytically anymore. I have been harmed by Atomoxetine.

 

I am so sorry about your journey so far. I also read the moderator reply to your SA introduction and also feel it was inappropriately judgemental. I developed ADR/WD symptoms late last year and wanted to join SA but when I also browsed the forum I was dismayed by the cold and dismissive approach from moderators towards some posters e.g. telling them "we're not here to help with your medical problems" when someone posted repeatedly wanting advice on a new symptom. I just wanted to share that so you don't feel like the only one who formed that impression

 

I have found this forum very welcoming with a more neutral approach, but still with tolerance for healthy debates. Please feel welcome xx

 

Oh gosh, bless you, I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences with atomexitine. You've been through the mill. You have my deepest best wishes.

 

I had a read of your thread and wow, the irony of it all? That's just maddening. You've no doubt trained so hard to get where you are, and only to be harmed by a drug that you yourself were advocating and prescribing! I'm so sorry, that's just not acceptable is it? I really feel for you friend, that is a rough roll of the dice. But hang in there, you're at the early stages right now if I remember correctly? Neuroplasticity is your friend, it will come back. I know it's easier said than done, but try and be patient with yourself if you can :).

 

You're also not alone in realising the limitations of psychiatry. My best friend is a mental health nurse, who now works in clinical informatics. He left the profession and said to me (to paraphrase)"Modern psychiatry is akin to modern medicine from the early 1900s". It's still very much in its infancy; so we've all been doing the best we can with what we have in this period of time we've been born in.

 

On the ADHD front, it's my personal belief with zero backing from the literature base (although I've never done a search on this), that ADHDers either have serotonin systems that are different in some way or are learned to be used differently as a coping strategy. I think this might be where the creativity and empathy comes from. I know that there's now proof that serotonin receptors are different in auties, but I'm unaware of this being proven in ADHDers.

 

One thing I've heard from multiple friends who have ADHD and are on SSRI's, is their experience of a period of time where they have an MDMA like state when beginning their meds. It doesn't last long usually, no more than a few days to a few weeks. But I wonder if this is perhaps hinting at something unusual occurring physiologically? Some food for thought.

 

But I digress. I do feel welcome here. You have all done much to asuage me of my fears and make me feel like one of you. Thank you for the very warm welcome, it's so appreciated 🙂 xxx

Edited February 21Feb 21 by graininthegrooves

5 hours ago, graininthegrooves said:

Hi Chippy, thanks for such a warm welcome! I'd never want you to agree with me on everything, how boring would that be haha! Healthy debate is what I love, and respectful conversations are the only kind you'll have from me. Additionally, I'll only ever not let something go if I see it's causing direct measurable harm to someone in front of me or to myself. That's just an ethics/justice thing for me. I hope you can appreciate that :).

 

All sounds good to me my friend. Good to have you here.

Hi @graininthegrooves

 

welcome. It's great that you give this community another chance after your bad experience before. I am sorry you had a bad start at SA and understand that you felt invalidated and not welcome. It probably would have been better to give you some time to arrive and feel comfortable before confronting you with critical ideas.

 

I don't want to make the same mistake again, but personally I also don't think that psychiatric diagnosis are in general very helpful when it comes to "curing" someone. They often do harm in this respect and the only benefit they have is that they provide someone with social recognition of his problems. It's like an official permission to be the way you are and an entitlement to certain forms of support...which of course is a good thing...if the subsequent treatment does not cause more harm than this is worth.

 

If your ADHD diagnosis "works" for you, it is fine and I wouldn't try to talk you out of this. On the other hand take yourself the way you are...you don't need permission to be different than other people...at least not before god or your conscience or whatever.

 

2 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

Hi @graininthegrooves

 

welcome. It's great that you give this community another chance after your bad experience before. I am sorry you had a bad start at SA and understand that you felt invalidated and not welcome. It probably would have been better to give you some time to arrive and feel comfortable before confronting you with critical ideas.

 

I don't want to make the same mistake again, but personally I also don't think that psychiatric diagnosis are in general very helpful when it comes to "curing" someone. They often do harm in this respect and the only benefit they have is that they provide someone with social recognition of his problems. It's like an official permission to be the way you are and an entitlement to certain forms of support...which of course is a good thing...if the subsequent treatment does not cause more harm than this is worth.

 

If your ADHD diagnosis "works" for you, it is fine and I wouldn't try to talk you out of this. On the other hand take yourself the way you are...you don't need permission to be different than other people...at least not before god or your conscience or whatever.

 

 

Hey Alfred, thanks for your response to my post. 

 

I'm really happy to have that conversation you don't need to worry. We're all entitled to our own opinions and I'd be curious to see what more you might have to say. Please go for it. I really appreciate your sensitivity though, it's very thoughtful of you. But, never feel you need to hold back with me.  

 

My concern at SA, wasn't so much the floating of ADHD being a pathology or not, or how we would frame it. I have my own ideas on that and I'll happily discuss them below (but I really would love to hear more about yours). It was very much due to the moderators invalidation from within their responsible position, encoupled with the absolute quackery of the evidence that was quoted to support that invalidation, and then silence rather than an open discussion.

 

I used to read research for a living and I'm able to critique that research to a decent standard as all independent practitioners should be. None of what they quoted stood up to any scientific standard at all. In fact it was obvious to me the person that wrote "Mad in America" cherrypicked the poor quality evidence so as to appear to a layman that their opinion were backed by scientific fact, when in fact it was most definitely not (and in some cases proved to be the opposite of what they were claiming). All research was either so poor it needed throwing out, or proved the opposite of what was being claimed. Which is likely duplicitous on the part of author. The evidence, for practically any healthcare scientist trained to read research, would indeed have been laughable if the use of it wasn't to such a detrimental effect.

 

What I found enraging on the forum was that, even though I analysed and critiqued the research provided to a reasonable standard (albeit relatively quickly - I wasn't being paid haha), it was entirely ignored by the moderators. And, the potential harm this could then cause to others was so concerning. There was no open discussion. I was ignored. Just a dogmatic line in the sand and silence. Which is dangerous in any environment and immediately raised red flags.

 

What we know in any field and any subject should always be evolving and open to discussion don't you think? That's healthy. I subsequently started to feel like I had to therefore hide part of who I was in order to gain support from the forum, so I left, and only came back when I was desperately in need of support.

 

----

 

With regards to ADHD more broadly speaking, I see it as an interesting topic of discussion indeed. I very much resonate with some of what you're saying. Especially when it comes to ADHD which I have some knowledge of, there's this need to diagnose the way people are because, they don't fit in to society.

 

From a medical perspective, ADHD isn't your typical psychiatric diagnosis. It's classed as a neurodevelopmental disorder, as opposed to a mental health one, that's mostly created via genetic expression. It also, like other conditions, has until recently suffered from the over pathologisation of various aspects of the human experience through the medical approach. Which highlights all of the downsides and ignores all of the advantages. That's of course not to say there aren't many disadvantages to it, because there are, especially in modern society. But it is the framing of it that I feel we are currently missing. From my perspective I feel that framing separates us from our better selves; and removes evolutionary and broader context.

 

But what if we reframed that perspective as trying to fit in to a hunter gatherer tribe for instance?

 

People who are diagnosed with ADHD have many attributes that I consider to have been useful go back 10,000 years and that would have been an evolutionary advantage. For instance, we have a tendency to have circadian rhythm disorders as per the literature. In a hunter gatherer tribe, perhaps this was useful as a night watch man or woman, to warn of predators and competing tribes? We also have a tendency to feel empathy more readily and deeply. Perhaps this was useful in being the glue the held small communities together? We also tend to deal with crises differently; rather than panicking, many of us thrive in a crisis. I can imagine an ADHDer being useful in this hunter gatherer environment in being that person that takes charge when something goes very wrong.

 

Even if what I've said above is proven to be false, it's this kind of reframing that I feel something like ADHD is currently missing. As someone with it, it often it feels like, I'm a square peg being pushed into the round hole of modern society. That society has been built for those with neurotypicals, but that society wasn't always this way. Again, this is just a feeling encoupled with my experience.

 

Neurodivergency as an idea has some degree begun to challenge that idea. But unfortunately, that has yet to really be taken up by the medical profession. I've often wandered how we might go about challenging this through research. No doubt some of the above could be tested, but some would be very difficult to prove, unless we had a time machine 😛.

 

I am grateful for your reassurance that I don't need someone to tell me the way that I am. Thank you. Likewise, I hope you feel the same.

 

I do find it also quite reassuring being able to share community with fellow ADHDers. The label isn't helpful. Nor is the stigma attached. But these people get me. We have shared struggles and gifts. Though, we perhaps shouldn't be called ADHDers. Interestingly, we also seem to attract each other, even when we don't know that we have ADHD which is just plain strange to me!

 

But yeah I digress, please do share what you think honestly. I'm always up for learning and sharing ideas and having that discussion :). Cheers mate. 

 

 

Edited February 21Feb 21 by graininthegrooves

Hey @graininthegrooves

 

I guess I would pass a test for ADHD as well, though my official personal label or stigma is depression. I think the symptoms discussed in connection with those labels are real and those labels can help speaking about those issues and connecting with others. Where I personally do not follow is when medicine suggests that they would understand those phenomena and can treat them like they e.g. understand diabetes and can treat diabetes. I think this is a delusion and this delusion resulted in the prescription of ADs in my case which turned out to be a personal catastrophe.

I think the problems behind all this are complex...and one aspect certainly is society or social acceptance. I don't feel much acceptance for phenomena like depression or ADHD in society...you become an outcast no matter which way you choose...the official medical way or the way of communities like this one. Not all cases are the same...but maybe sometimes society is more sick than the individual person with "mental problems" is?!