25 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

Here’s some food for thought: is there actually a way to taper off these poisons without triggering intrusive, unwanted dark thoughts, but also without needing a decade to do it?

I’ve accepted that this may take years. I really have. But a decade? I’m not emotionally prepared to make tapering my full time career. 😂 I was hoping I could be off both drugs within two years, but now I’m starting to wonder if that’s overly optimistic.

There is no timeline for tapering and recovery. That's one of the most vexing things about it; some people can virtually CT or do a quick taper and be fine, while others can be affected for years. But there is no benefit to projecting your recovery out to 10 years; its unlikely it'll last that long. Improvement can come at any time, but you have to use coping skills every day, just like you have to exercise to stay in shape.

28 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

Then again, two years already sounds wild considering that last summer I genuinely thought I was basically at the finish line. Apparently, I wasn’t at the finish line at all, I was still in the parking lot, just starting to look for the map and trying to figure out what had just happened.

Recovery isn't linear. Its full of ups an downs. Many people have months of feeling okay and then get hit by long-term waves. That's the nature of WD and recovery.

The key is to take each day as it comes, and to not assume one or two bad days means you can't recover. Recovery should be measured over months, not days or weeks. Frame your recovery in those terms--working toward long-term recovery goals instead of looking for a quick recovery. You'll make it!

15 minutes ago, mstimc60 said:

45 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

Here’s some food for thought: is there actually a way to taper off these poisons without triggering intrusive, unwanted dark thoughts, but also without needing a decade to do it?

I’ve accepted that this may take years. I really have. But a decade? I’m not emotionally prepared to make tapering my full time career. 😂 I was hoping I could be off both drugs within two years, but now I’m starting to wonder if that’s overly optimistic.

There is no timeline for tapering and recovery. That's one of the most vexing things about it; some people can virtually CT or do a quick taper and be fine, while others can be affected for years. But there is no benefit to projecting your recovery out to 10 years; its unlikely it'll last that long. Improvement can come at any time, but you have to use coping skills every day, just like you have to exercise to stay in shape.

  45 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

Then again, two years already sounds wild considering that last summer I genuinely thought I was basically at the finish line. Apparently, I wasn’t at the finish line at all, I was still in the parking lot, just starting to look for the map and trying to figure out what had just happened.

Recovery isn't linear. Its full of ups an downs. Many people have months of feeling okay and then get hit by long-term waves. That's the nature of WD and recovery.

The key is to take each day as it comes, and to not assume one or two bad days means you can't recover. Recovery should be measured over months, not days or weeks. Frame your recovery in those terms--working toward long-term recovery goals instead of looking for a quick recovery. You'll make it!

Thank you. One day at a time. 🙏

48 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

Thank you, John. My biggest wish right now is that I were where you are, off the meds and healed, a destination I’m sure didn’t come easily for you.

When I started, I thought I'd finish my Wellbutrin taper and be done in 6 months. I had been reassured by a professional that it was very easy, don't you know 😆 I was in a poop-out situation, which is not what I signed up for 🤣 Even I recovered, and so can you!

55 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

what happens when I actually start tapering again? I

When I was tapering effexor and I got the Big Fear I'd take enough time off that I forgot how challenging tapering was 😁

56 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

I keep wondering how I’m ever going to taper both Wellbutrin and Prozac.

Easy for me to say, but I think the trick is to focus on today and the current situation, and let tomorrow's problems sort themselves out.

I took many years off between med tapers while I had other life situations.

1 hour ago, Healthyagain said:

Yesterday I had a few beautiful hours where I felt completely like myself again,

What a gift! This is huuuuuuuuuuuge!!! If you can have a window, then you can recover fully, is what I've been told. For me, the windows started expanding. Shocked the heck out of me.

1 hour ago, Healthyagain said:

did you still experience intrusive SI during that time? When did you notice it really starting to fade?

Great question. I would have morning terrors when I woke up, which were intense. I would remind myself that this was just a normal part of my day 😂 and that in about 15 minutes or so they would fade, and try to avoid adding the 2nd kind of fear(fear of fear). Dr. Claire Weekes 101, if you're familiar with her. if not, check her out on YouTube. Amazing woman, I wish I could've met her.

This is just my personal timeline and I wouldn't place a lot of weight on it applying to anybody else, but around a year off meds the worst of the symptoms were over. The next year was letting my CNS settle down so I was less sensitized day to day.

1 hour ago, Healthyagain said:

Having people who truly understand, but can also bring some humor into the process, sounds incredibly helpful. ❤️

I was truly blessed to have companions on this journey. I made it a habit to reach out to people who I thought had a good sense of humor, despite it all. I'd encourage anybody to do the same and build that tribe!

1 hour ago, Healthyagain said:

even when it feels impossibly messy.

That's cool you're right where you're supposed to be! Don't forget, nobody wound up on this website because their taper was going so well!! 🤣🤣🤣

1 hour ago, Healthyagain said:

and have the intrusive SI return

To be serious a moment about a subject I am really not qualified to comment on, I'd give a gentle reminder that tapering is not mandatory. There are some schools of thought (Dr. Shipko) that for people who have been on a drug many years like myself, tapering to zero might not be possible or desirable, that simply getting to a lower dose that has less side effects is enough. I'm no purist and there was no brass band waiting for me once I got to zero 😂🎷🎶🎺

1 hour ago, Healthyagain said:

is there actually a way to taper off these poisons without triggering intrusive, unwanted dark thoughts, but also without needing a decade to do it?

You'll find your way. In one of the Dr. Shipko books he talks about how it's much easier to reduce from the max dose of a med to the starting dose than it is to go below the starting dose, which has been my experience as well.

1 hour ago, Healthyagain said:

I was hoping I could be off both drugs within two years, but now I’m starting to wonder if that’s overly optimistic.

I had to go through the stages of grief many times as I tapered.

22 minutes ago, j1290 said:

To be serious a moment about a subject I am really not qualified to comment on, I'd give a gentle reminder that tapering is not mandatory. There are some schools of thought (Dr. Shipko) that for people who have been on a drug many years like myself, tapering to zero might not be possible or desirable, that simply getting to a lower dose that has less side effects is enough. I'm no purist and there was no brass band waiting for me once I got to zero 😂🎷🎶🎺

Thank you. I really appreciate this perspective, especially because I know you were on medication for many years too. I’m definitely not attached to getting to zero at all costs, I’d much rather be stable and functional than force something my nervous system can’t tolerate.

Can I ask, though, did you ever experience dark, unwanted intrusive thoughts during your taper? That’s the symptom that scares me the most when it returns, and I’m trying to understand how others handled it while still continuing to taper.

And yes, I’m slightly disappointed to hear there’s no brass band at zero. 😂🎺

2 minutes ago, Healthyagain said:

Can I ask, though, did you ever experience dark, unwanted intrusive thoughts during your taper? That’s the symptom that scares me the most when it returns,

My thoughts in general were dark and overreacting while in the worst of WD symptoms. I reminded myself they were chemical feelings and got through it moment by moment the best I could. I tried not to make them worse by normalizing them and trying not to fuel the flame. There might be articles on survivingantidepressants on this topic, come think of it.

I think the normal things like exercise, engaging with friends and family, hobbies, etc are all great ways to distract. That said, because of my physical symptoms and irritability I avoided socializing and got through it via distraction. One of the things I did was read all the tapering articles on survivingantidepressants. I learned something new everytime I went through them. I also read books by Dr. Shipko and whatever tapering info I could find. Things have really been picking up the last couple years in the tapering community.

Come think of it, there might be discussions elsewhere for people that are going through serious medical situations about this topic. Surely we can't be the only ones who struggle through illness. Wish I'd thought of that sooner 😆

2 hours ago, j1290 said:

My thoughts in general were dark and overreacting while in the worst of WD symptoms. I reminded myself they were chemical feelings and got through it moment by moment the best I could. I tried not to make them worse by normalizing them and trying not to fuel the flame. There might be articles on survivingantidepressants on this topic, come think of it.

I think the normal things like exercise, engaging with friends and family, hobbies, etc are all great ways to distract. That said, because of my physical symptoms and irritability I avoided socializing and got through it via distraction. One of the things I did was read all the tapering articles on survivingantidepressants. I learned something new everytime I went through them. I also read books by Dr. Shipko and whatever tapering info I could find. Things have really been picking up the last couple years in the tapering community.

Come think of it, there might be discussions elsewhere for people that are going through serious medical situations about this topic. Surely we can't be the only ones who struggle through illness. Wish I'd thought of that sooner 😆

Thank you. This actually helps.

When you get a chance, could you recommend any specific articles or threads on Surviving Antidepressants that were especially useful to you and not triggering?

There’s so much information there that I honestly have no idea how to weed through it, and some of it can send me down a rabbit hole.

Even the Shipko discussion triggered me, to be honest. My brain immediately went to, what if I’ve suffered through this entire year and still won’t be able to cross zero on either of my medications? I know I’ve said stability matters more to me than reaching zero at any cost, and I still mean that, but of course I deeply hope I can eventually get off both and heal.

So if there were certain things you kept going back to that felt grounding rather than frightening, I’d really appreciate knowing what they were.

@Healthyagain as I am sure others have and will tell you there are no shortcuts to getting off these drugs safely. It is better to be stable and tapering than rush off and end up in protracted WD. Main thing is get stable, then take this one step at a time, give no thought to the future, there is only today. I say this to myself often.