1 hour ago, Cloudy4ever said:

I mean ideally doctors just shouldn't do any harm at all,

Yes, it's written in black and white in the Hippocratic Oath they took to be considered worthy of calling themselves "doctors".

It's also important to emphasize that the people seeking their help are already suffering mentally. Yes, there's always a part of them that is consciously making a decision, but there's also another, very significant part that is simply desperate to find relief.

These are vulnerable people—for one reason or another, and any of us could find ourselves in that position one day. That's who doctors have sitting in front of them. We weren't consulting them for a dislocated toe, were we? (Painful as that might be.)

5 minutes ago, poulette38 said:

But what are you supposed to do when you do your research beforehand, only to find out that almost everything you're told online about SSRIs is misleading?

I agree it's all a huge issue, and most people aren't and can't research something that deeply, it's a huge issue.

I was just trying to put a spin that you can use that lesson to now know you need to be skeptical and researching everything more deeply, especially big pharma drugs.

At this point it's too late and now we know, I can go into victim mode and complain i knew those drugs were bad but i was bed bound in a very bad state and manipulated into consuming so many psych drugs, and i ended up on the one drug that caused insane dependency, but it's pointless, we must do what we need to do now, and we will make it out, and have as much enjoyment out of our days as possible, even with withdrawals.

I even feel empowered in some way, I already been through one of the most hellish states (maybe not the worst destabilization but was in a very bad and very sensitive place), and nothing in life is gonna be worst than that, nothing.

Edited July 20Jul 20 by Lighty

2 hours ago, Cloudy4ever said:

Yes, the medical gaslighting is unreal. They should really start teaching physicians that it is okay to say "I can see something is going on, but I have no idea what it is". That random psychological blame feels like abuse.

Hi @Cloudy4ever , I try to stay off the site now except for once a month, but I saw your thread in passing and related to it as I also was kindled on low doses of the same drug, so I read your thread. I am so sorry you are going through this too.

I saw you pondering RI, and as always this decision is your choice. Just wanted to echo Chippy's sentiments that I wouldn't recommend it. The first time off drugs many of us have those unacknowledged withdrawals that put us right back on the poison. Once we are on and off a few times, or other drugs are introduced the kindling begins...yay us! Now we have an epic journey to navigate, but we can make it. Our CNS is sooo fragile now that any RI will not be guaranteed the same results as previous times. I personally know of someone that did reinstate after so many months from a CT and adverse reaction, and is still over a year later from the RI dealing with horrible a and si. This person has been dealing with a well known clinic trying to stabilize at a low dose still, adding some years now to the healing journey.

Yes, this journey is hell, but if we ride it out healing can happen, especially in the 2-3 year time frame. It's a common story. Look at it as you are highly possibly about half way through. This 1-2 yr mark of the journey is still hard. I constantly remind myself it's better than acute!

I also loved all the conversations about a neurologist. I thought of seeking one too recently just for some help in mitigating my POTS symptoms that have ramped up lately. I thought some natural advice might be helpful. Silly me! One of my friends also did the same thing, and said her appointment was a complete waste of time. She was referred back to a psychiatrist! I couldn't get an appointment until next year, and I'd probably get the same lame answer. If the doctor acknowledges withdrawal and tries learning about it, then it's worth a try. But those doctors are hard to find.

So we are the CEO of our own healthcare. I agree with much of what both @Chippy and @Lighty wrote. I agree with your sentiments on our abysmal healthcare system denying that these drugs cause injury.

For me, coaches who have healed from this atrocity and their support groups have helped me navigate this horror. I learned more from them and this site than from any doctor. The stories of those who made it through are inspirational. If I had continued to listen to psychiatry, I would have been another statistic of a perfectly normal person who went to them for normal situational issues ending up with years of polydrugging. Even this person will heal. We have to listen to our inner voice. You are smart, and can make decisions on what's best for you. You've got this! Best wishes to you on this journey.💖

@poulette38 This won't answer your questions but it's something I want to share. I once met a person who, like me, enjoyed philosophical conversation and this person was very analytical in his reasoning. He taught me his line of reasoning, I still have the paper I wrote notes on. He said "When someone claims something" he asked himself "How do you come up with that, based on what knowledge? What makes you have this knowledge? From what intention are you sharing this? Is that knowledge also available to me, can I verify this?"

He also said that situations are 'moldy' as in moldable, or changeable. They aren't static, you can take control over it and change it. This was said in the context of a workplace (not disease or withdrawal), where you can pitch new idea's, and implement features for the well-being of the company. But he just applied those principles to any situation he found himself in.

His admonishment to me was instead of blaming others or getting angry, I should voice my concern in a constructive way, and work on the solution myself. He told me to say it like this. "Hey guys, I think we can handle this issue in a better way and I have an idea on how to do it."
But yes, being mislead is a real phenomena that exists. I guess most of us are just too ill to do something about it, and those who get better move on.

I understand what you mean, Lighty. How have you been doing lately?

I'll send you a private message so I don't take over @Cloudy4ever 's personal thread.

I don't know anyone in real life who has recovered from this, but one thing that comes up again and again in online recovery stories is that people often come out of it stronger than they were before.

And honestly, that's what all of us were missing before we started taking this stuff. So maybe that will end up being one of the very few positive things we can take away from this nightmare.

Because if we had been strong enough at the time, we probably wouldn't have taken them. But everyone has their own story, and as I said, any one of us can become vulnerable at some point in life. That's why I don't think it's fair to blame ourselves too harshly either.

We're emotional human beings, even though we're capable of reason. Sometimes our emotions outweigh our reason. There's nothing shameful about that—it's simply part of being human.

I'd even go so far as to say that it proves we have our humanity, unlike some people who seem so emotionally hardened that they would never find themselves in that position.

There's always a sliver of light that finds its way through, even under the thickest closed door. I hope that not only will we all make it through this, but that one day we'll also be able to look back and recognize that sliver of light. As for me, I already know what that is, because I'm a believer. But I'm convinced that one day, everyone will find their own word for it. 💫

I'm not talking about adopting a naïvely positive outlook, but neither do I want to see the glass as half empty all the time. Yes, none of this should ever have happened to anyone. Yes, we're living through something profoundly inhumane. Yes, we've lost so much because we trusted a lie.

As for me, if someone asks whether the glass is half full or half empty, my answer has always been: it's both.

Apparently, it's a question people sometimes ask to find out whether someone is naturally optimistic or pessimistic. They ask you to imagine a glass filled halfway with water. If you say it's "half full," you're considered an optimist. If you say it's "half empty," you're considered a pessimist.

Edited July 20Jul 20 by poulette38

38 minutes ago, Vince said:

@poulette38I guess most of us are just too ill to do something about it, and those who get better move on.

Yes @Vince

That's exactly where the problem lies, and both the pharmaceutical industry and the medical profession are well aware of it. When you're anxious or depressed, it's hard to take the actions you know you should. (I dont understand if you said this in the wd context or before med sorry)

1 hour ago, HopePerseveres2.0 said:

Just wanted to echo Chippy's sentiments that I wouldn't recommend it.

Hi @HopePerseveres2.0 . Thank you for your take on things. I won't reinstate, I see how messy my history is and I really can't afford any worsening. I had inner aka and insomnia on lex and there is just no way I could survive it. I'v just been queitly flabbergasted for 18 months that something this extreme could essentially murder my soul "over night". I was so full or anxiety, fear, worry = energy /life before and the contrast is absurd.

Yes the neurologist approach is interesting because they are the ones who should be able to help or at least provide some answers, but it just ends up becoming some twisted joke. I really wish I had pushed for an fMRI.

I think if you have an opportunity at choosing your own neuro, you could do research to find someone knowledgeable on POTS?

Not sure I have ever heard of a single neuro who acknowledged paws or pssd, wonder if there are any....

Thank you for the support and encouragement. 🌟

1 hour ago, Cloudy4ever said:

I think if you have an opportunity at choosing your own neuro, you could do research to find someone knowledgeable on POTS?

@Cloudy4ever , I don't think most doctors even know about POTS either. The appointment is next year, hopefully I'll be more healed by then and not need it. Angie Peacock is adamant that everyone heals from POTS induced by WD injury. Both her and Melissa Boutillier dealt with those symptoms and are very familiar with that symptom in withdrawal. Angie's hard to get for coaching, but I know a few healing buddies that have used Melissa quite a few times. You could schedule a session with her to share your WD concerns, or any other coach out there. All these coaches have seen so many people heal. We just have to keep alive right now. Our body does know what to do! Please do whatever you need to do just to make it through another day. You are young and will bounce back. There are people who love you, even though they don't understand this. I'm sorry you had to leave school. I had to retire early. I miss working! But we will get our lives back again.

Most of us never thought we'd be dealing with something like this! It's 17 months for me, and the worst thing I ever went through. I just keep focusing on the improvements, and have reread my window moments constantly! I know it's hard because our brain naturally goes negative on every symptom! I am grateful for the doctors who are researching this and have exposed what these drugs really do. We just have to trust the process from the knowledge of those who have gone through this and care enough to share their experience and hope with us.

9 hours ago, Vince said:

His admonishment to me was instead of blaming others or getting angry, I should voice my concern in a constructive way, and work on the solution myself. He told me to say it like this. "Hey guys, I think we can handle this issue in a better way and I have an idea on how to do it."
But yes, being mislead is a real phenomena that exists. I guess most of us are just too ill to do something about it, and those who get better move on.

The problem with that, as it comes from the workplace, is that it assumes that you are dealing with people acting in good faith.

I've spent years engaging with the drug safety regulators and the RCPsych who oversee psychiatric treatment in the UK, and I can assure you that particularly the latter are not.

Whilst very ill I have provided all manner of constructive ways in which patients could be treated in a safer manner, better informed etc.

I've spent years trying to work my doctors to make it so that they learn from their mistakes and next time someone has an adverse drug reaction, they react better and quicker, but they don't want to hear any of it and do not admit their mistakes. In fact, in the same letter they acknowledged that the drugs they prescribed disabled me, they also stated that they were proud of the treatment they gave me.

12 hours ago, Cloudy4ever said:

Unfortunately finding info on the truth about psychiatric medication is not very easy, like you really have to go digging.

Yes, it is deliberate.

In the UK, he drug safety regulators were heavily criticised in government reports for not doing enough about withdrawal in 2004. Today if you try to look up withdrawal on the NHS website or any similar resources from state healthcare, you get nothing. They have known for decades, they have been called out for doing nothing for decades, and they're still doing nothing- it's not an accident.

5 minutes ago, Luke said:

but they don't want to hear any of it and do not admit their mistakes.

most people in this world don't care about others and only care about themselves or about feeling like they are doing the right thing (even if it's not reality and they cause harm), that's why we need to do the change and save people's lives and help others. I refuse to be like that and feed to this world's negativity, i dealt with so many people who aren't truly honest and if you become a bother, they will just throw you under the bus, they do not care.