Hey all,

 

Like many I have come over from SA.

So grateful to have found them a few months ago in the early stages of my taper and a huge thank you to everyone making this site possible to keep us all connected and supported.

 

I’m currently holding my Mirt taper at 1.2mg due to WD symptoms.

Here’s the link to my full story from SA

 https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/32985-emsy-mirtazapine-advice/

 

Emma

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Hey Emsy

 

Welcome to the forum! 

 

Thanks for the post! 

 

Lovely to see you over here :) 

 

Speak soon

 

Chippy

I’m now on day 50 since my last drop, I’ve had WD symptoms for the last 35 days.

Yesterday was just awful, today just feels bad, but I’ll take bad for now!

But this morning I had this weird thing happen in bed. Firstly I had no nightmares last night - win - I still woke early with the big cortisol dump and high nausea and anxiety, then out of nowhere while I was still lying in bed, this gentle wave of calm went through my body and I physically felt my stomach unclench. It lasted about 3 seconds and disappeared and I was back to nausea and anxiety. Is this what people experience when they start to have ‘windows’?

I’ve managed a shower, washed my hair, short walk, vacuumed my living room, couldn’t have done any of that yesterday.

Hey Emsy

 

Yesterday was just awful, today just feels bad, but I’ll take bad for now!

I can empathise with that statement!

 

of nowhere while I was still lying in bed, this gentle wave of calm went through my body and I physically felt my stomach unclench.

I’ve not had that but certainly in my first 7 months I had a bunch odd one off things happen. Odd strong feelings in my head. Random neuro emotions that didn’t come back. It’s a beast all this for sure. 

 

Is this what people experience when they start to have ‘windows’?

I think everyone is different. I can see some people get to know their bodies and can tell a waves coming. Or when the drop they know a wave will come and can tell how long it will last. I’ve not seen anything that’s common linking anyone. 

 

Did you up dose in the end?

 

Chippy

Thanks Chippy, 

I was thinking this morning, my god you’ve been a rock to me since August, you and B and Getofflex. Honestly can’t thank you enough and I see you responding to everyone on this forum even with all your own awful symptoms.

I didn’t updose, I decided to wait and see a bit longer. I’m loathe to do it in case I get worse symptoms from messing with my brain again after 7 weeks at 1.2mg. 

I see some people getting great relief from updosing and some people ending up in terrible states!

Bless you Emsy that’s kind of you to say. Im just trying to help out where I can. So much suffering around. After nearly 2 years off I want to try to be more proactive to help rather than complain about how terrible it all is. Feels good to be positive. 

 

Yeah I think my approach is similar to what you say here. There are things you can try and sometimes they work but sometimes they don’t. And in fact can make it worse. So eventually I think people settle down and realise there isn’t a quick fix and patience is the key. I did. Took me a few months to get there but I don’t want to rock the boat trying to make myself better. Time and patience seems to be the best way. 

 

Once you’ve stabilised you now know you need to go real slow as you come down. Common story but you’ll be on your way then. Good to not jiggle the brain as getofflex said.

Hi Emsy

 

Yes, it sounds like you had a window, albeit a brief one.  I had a somewhat similar experience during my WD.  Our son was in junior high jazz band and I went to a concert.  As I was watching him, seeing the look of pure joy on his face, my anxiety lifted and I was able to just be in the moment.  It lasted no more than 20 minutes, but from then on I knew I could recover.  If something as simple as a concert could bring me relief, I realized my anxious and obsessive thoughts couldn't be as powerful as I thought.  It still took me another year or so to get to what I can recovery, but it was a start.  Hang onto that when you hit a wave!

Thank you for sharing that it gives me so much hope ?

I’m really struggling today. The anxiety is like nothing like I’ve experienced before, worse even than the breakdown I had which was why I was prescribed mirtazapine.

I’m so scared with no family and living alone and realising that 7 weeks of having WD since my last does drop means I’m now in protracted WD. I’m too scared to updose in case I end up with even worse symptoms and as someone with an anxious physiology normally the extra anxiety from the WD is awful. The feeling of powerlessness is an awful one and knowing there’s nothing I can do except wait it out over weeks or months or years is terrifying.

I just needed to tell someone.

Hey Emsy

 

I really sorry to read this.

 

This is a difficult journey we are all on. I can understand the loneliness. There are people I can talk to, but the truth is they simply can't understand what we got through. It's sad to say but just the truth.

 

Be kind to yourself. Try to do things that make you happy. Distract from the symptoms as best you can. Walking is a great way to burn off emotional energy.

It really does come down to learning how to deal with the days sometimes minute by minute when it's tough. Angie Peacock says this in her videos. Survive the day and do that enough and you will get there. Something like that.

 

I understand you decision to hold. I think I would do the same. It takes a long time get stable sometimes.

 

Sorry it took a while to see this and reply.

 

I hope this has lifted a little for you today at least.

 

Chippy

Thanks for your reply Chippy.

I know many are months and even years into this journey and here I am only weeks in and the thought of months or years of this is unbearable.

I can see looking at my withdrawal log that I seem to be on a downward trajectory with the anxiety and nausea and inability to eat over the last week and half after a few days of feeling like I was improving. 

I do know my own fear is adding stress to an already hypersensitive nervous system making the anxiety and nausea worse.

I’m a keen hill walker and rock climber and one of the hardest things about all this is losing my ability to be able to do those things. On a ‘less bad’ day I’m able to walk just over a mile at the moment but on an ‘awful’ day leaving the house feels impossible, especially in the cold winter of north wales.

I’m still toying with going up from 1.2 to 1.3 to try and ease the panic in my system. If I feel the same I’ve not really lost anything and it’s a small updose so I’m hoping won’t destabilise things further. Holding at 1.2mg is destabilising me to be honest anyway.

I’ve looked on SA but I’m struggling to find much info on people who have successfully updosed.

That's ok, Im sorry it took till today. I try to stay off the forums after a certain time now. Busy with AR at the moment just getting things sorted. Im a bit house bound as Ive got a cold and it's making everything terrible! When the good weather comes I want to be in the Hills again (before ideally) and not online all day! lol

 

I know many are months and even years into this journey and here I am only weeks in and the thought of months or years of this is unbearable.

This is tough. We don't know how long we will be on this journey. Some, as you say, longer than others. You might turn a corner quickly you never know. I know it's a hard thing to face but acceptance is so important. You might not be ready to get to this point yet. Have you read my post on acceptance? Acceptance is key

Don't assume by accepting you are welcoming in the suffering you are not. Nor are you making it last longer by doing so. You will recover in the same time regardless. But I truly believe this is one of if not the most important tools we have. There if you want it. Hope it helps some.

 

I can see looking at my withdrawal log that I seem to be on a downward trajectory with the anxiety and nausea and inability to eat over the last week and half after a few days of feeling like I was improving. 

It's not a down hill trajectory, you are moving forwards, just in the early months it feels like it. Your system is trying to get organised and find its feet so to speak. It needs time.

 

I do know my own fear is adding stress to an already hypersensitive nervous system making the anxiety and nausea worse.

 

I get that. This is a real consideration IMO.

 

I’m a keen hill walker and rock climber and one of the hardest things about all this is losing my ability to be able to do those things. On a ‘less bad’ day I’m able to walk just over a mile at the moment but on an ‘awful’ day leaving the house feels impossible, especially in the cold winter of north wales.

 

I love this, I don't climb but Im a hill monkey. Just love being up there, so remote and beautiful. Its amazing! I also struggle with the cold winter, my system isn't a fan of it. I can manage some decent hikes on a good days though.

 

I’m still toying with going up from 1.2 to 1.3 to try and ease the panic in my system. If I feel the same I’ve not really lost anything and it’s a small updose so I’m hoping won’t destabilise things further. Holding at 1.2mg is destabilising me to be honest anyway.

 

This is always an option isn't it. Just it is as you are aware not a magic bullet. 

 

I’ve looked on SA but I’m struggling to find much info on people who have successfully updosed.

 

I can't point you there either off the top of my head. It's a black art all this. To be honest I get so frustrated by the suffering and harm. It's not right. We will get there Emsy time is the biggest factor that much I am sure of.

 

We are all here for you.

 

Chippy

Thanks fellow hill monkey :0)

I came to climbing later in life at 51 but got the bug. Always amazes my climbing partners how an anxious person like me can actually lead climb but I think I’m so used to doing stuff scared it’s my baseline! 

 

No apology needed! You can’t spend all day every day on the forum, that’s just not sustainable and you need to look after you too. 

Sorry to hear you’re stuck in with a cold.

 

I’d already read your really good post on acceptance. 

I know it’s key, I’m working on it, I’m stuck in the cycle of trying to accept to make things easier rather than just the acceptance part regardless of outcome if you know what I mean.

I’m seeing a counsellor, she’s very shocked by my experience and is giving me nervous system regulation tools and we will work on the acceptance part together.

 

I must learn how to do the quoting parts of a message back thing in your posts.

Emma

Thanks fellow hill monkey :0)

:) Hey

 

I came to climbing later in life at 51 but got the bug. Always amazes my climbing partners how an anxious person like me can actually lead climb but I think I’m so used to doing stuff scared it’s my baseline! 

So cool, Ive done a little rope work and love it. The gear makes me feel safe and confident. Take the rope off. My legs go to jelly!

 

You can’t spend all day every day on the forum, that’s just not sustainable and you need to look after you too. 

No I don't tend to. Most weekends and holidays we are out or trying to be out walking. This Christmas/NY has been a bit rubbish for that. Wave and then a cold!!

 

I’m seeing a counsellor, she’s very shocked by my experience and is giving me nervous system regulation tools and we will work on the acceptance part together.

This is great. I mention the mourning period. I don't think you can avoid it. I think it's part of it. When you are ready to, you will get there with acceptance. I slip, then I remember and back on track, constant effort. One day though we will be better. I think the skills we gain in WD will help us later, like super powers! Just my theory!

 

I must learn how to do the quoting parts of a message back thing in your posts.

 

Ive done a little FAQ post which covers this and Im updating with various things as they come up. 

There is also one in there on Email Notifications and Subscribing to threads and how to get that working right. Early days with the forum, still teething things. Bare with! Posting FAQs

Hi Emsy, 

I wanted to say hi and provide some peer support. I’m sorry you’re struggling so much currently. Just when this type of low period hits, I’m hopeful there will be a swing toward better days based on how our nervous system responds and pendulates. I have a nervous system regulation exercises post that Luke put up for me. Perhaps the exercises will be beneficial for you. I find they help me feel more centered and calm.  

Though, just like lifting weights and strengthening our muscles, it takes time and repeated practice to strengthen our nervous system response to our perceived “danger”, whatever it may be. 

You can try to updose if it hasn’t been more than 3-5 months—this was something told to me years ago on SA. It does appear your tapering speed and drops were too fast and too large. I made a similar mistake earlier last year and for 1 month in the summer of 2024. Updosing a little and then holding for a while, I was able to feel better—not super but better. I don’t think we’ll feel super until we’re completely off of this Rx and recalibrate ourselves. But nice windows may be super! 

Make sure to stabilize if you updose or stay where you’re at and then follow the hyperbolic tapering of a 10% drop from your last dose as your next dose and stay there at least 1 month.  

I’m glad you’re with a counselor who is providing nervous system regulation exercises. You may be working with a somatic therapist, which in my opinion is really the way to go with this process of trauma and grief that we face with WDs.

If you have a faith, that can be very helpful.

Take care and blessings,

Namastejen1

Day 56 and I think I’m finally starting to see some windows. I actually got some sleep last night, some of my symptoms have faded and I’m just left with tinnitus, anxiety, fatigue and a very dysregulated nervous system. I feel like I have a hangover! 

I held on through the crushing symptoms a few days ago and resisted the urge to updose.

I spoke to a GP I haven’t spoken to before on Monday whose exact words (when I told him I’d be told it would be easy to come off, half the tablet for 2 weeks then stop) were ‘well yes that can work for a lot of people but it doesn’t work for everyone and many people have a hard time coming off’. I replied that had I been given THAT information I would never have touched the stuff. A potential ally in discussing informed consent I wonder? When I have some fight back in me.

I’m about to leave the house for the first time in a week and pick up some groceries which feels like massive progress. 

When a bad day feels ‘good’ you know you’ve been through the mill!

---

Hi Emsy

 

Yes, it sounds like you had a window, albeit a brief one.  I had a somewhat similar experience during my WD.  Our son was in junior high jazz band and I went to a concert.  As I was watching him, seeing the look of pure joy on his face, my anxiety lifted and I was able to just be in the moment.  It lasted no more than 20 minutes, but from then on I knew I could recover.  If something as simple as a concert could bring me relief, I realized my anxious and obsessive thoughts couldn't be as powerful as I thought.  It still took me another year or so to get to what I can recovery, but it was a start.  Hang onto that when you hit a wave!

 

Hi Emsy, 

I wanted to say hi and provide some peer support. I’m sorry you’re struggling so much currently. Just when this type of low period hits, I’m hopeful there will be a swing toward better days based on how our nervous system responds and pendulates. I have a nervous system regulation exercises post that Luke put up for me. Perhaps the exercises will be beneficial for you. I find they help me feel more centered and calm.  

Though, just like lifting weights and strengthening our muscles, it takes time and repeated practice to strengthen our nervous system response to our perceived “danger”, whatever it may be. 

You can try to updose if it hasn’t been more than 3-5 months—this was something told to me years ago on SA. It does appear your tapering speed and drops were too fast and too large. I made a similar mistake earlier last year and for 1 month in the summer of 2024. Updosing a little and then holding for a while, I was able to feel better—not super but better. I don’t think we’ll feel super until we’re completely off of this Rx and recalibrate ourselves. But nice windows may be super! 

Make sure to stabilize if you updose or stay where you’re at and then follow the hyperbolic tapering of a 10% drop from your last dose as your next dose and stay there at least 1 month.  

I’m glad you’re with a counselor who is providing nervous system regulation exercises. You may be working with a somatic therapist, which in my opinion is really the way to go with this process of trauma and grief that we face with WDs.

If you have a faith, that can be very helpful.

Take care and blessings,

Namastejen1

 

Thank you so much for your reply and support, it’s greatly appreciated. Yes I am in a somatic therapy group every week with a monthly 1:1 with the same somatic therapist. I feel that it’s the way forward to desensitise my nervous system.

I’ll have a look at the resources you mention. Thank you ☺️ 

Day 59 since the last dose drop and things seem to be easing up the last few days. The anxiety is a constant moderate anxiety as opposed to big anxiety spikes, the nausea is reduced, it’s easier to eat and no burning skin feelings. Thoughts are less catastrophic (I’m using Angie Peacocks mantra of ‘only the loving thoughts are real’) and I’ve managed this week to shop for groceries, have a cuppa at a friends and go to my neighbours for our Welsh lesson plus getting outside most days for a short walk. Is this me stabilising? I did get an improvement in symptoms 4 weeks after the drop which lasted a week and a half but then symptoms escalated so I don’t want to give myself false hope here!

Hey Emsy

 

Thanks for the update. All sounds very positive. Just hang tight and see how you go now! Could be settling down. I hope so.

 

Great you managed to get out and do a few things. Learning Welsh sounds well, hard! Good effort. I only know popty ping (microwave)! :)

 

Speak soon

 

Chippy

Glad that you are in somatic therapy. It should really help with a lot of fear that you have and we’re holding it in your body and how to manage that.

 

The truth is that we are more in the flow of love and light than in the lies of the darkness. If you can truly connect more to that light, be it spiritually or just in thoughts or religious, it’ll all help. At least that’s my $.02 (2 cents) about it.

 

Hope you have a great day!

Hi @Emsy Good to see you on Luke and Chippy's fantastic new website. How are you doing?  From what I gather you are stabilising.

This does sometimes takes a bit of time. But you are clued up and you know, that slow = success  and is the safest way off these horrible

drugs. So yes wishing you all the best on your last bit of tapering off. Be careful at this end Emsy, as the more minute the dose, the more

affect is felt on the CNS, this is because there is less of the drug in your system, so maybe 5% drops a the lower end. I think I jumped off

at 0.01 mg.  Took me 18 months from 7.5mg, but we are all different.   You WILL win

Take care,          B.🤞

So day god only knows since the last drop and things are frustratingly slow and tough. Definitively some improvements from Christmas and new year week but still feel rough every day and not able to go into the office for work or meet mates at the climbing wall or walk far. The crushing fatigue doesn’t help along with lack of sleep and general malaise on top of the anxiety spikes, headaches and tinnitus. But I am getting out most days for a walk of between 20 minutes and an hour (a far cry from being able to spend all day in the hills but progress) and managing a cuppa with a friend or neighbour for an hour or two a couple times a week.

My GP is calling me every fortnight to check im still here! Gives me the usual platitudes of ‘this won’t last forever’ and ‘we will get you through this’ and ‘keep getting outside when you can’ and I thank him very much for his time and then scream into a pillow once I’m off the phone 🙄

Im going to try to get to a sound bath a friend of mine is doing later this afternoon. If it doesn’t do anything else I’ll at least not hear the effing tinnitus for an hour!

What a ride we are all on. Sending hugs to anyone reading this.

Hey Emsy

 

Sorry to read this! It's a bit of theme at the moment people holding and finding stabilisation evasive. Good to note some improvement for sure!

 

Lack of sleep is the pits isnt it and compounds everything else.

 

Glad you are getting out regularly. I empathise. Ive been a bit house bound for the last week. The grey wet weather and the way I feel at the moment are a combination. Im looking forward to a few more brighter days! I miss my trips into the hills alot. It's gonna happen again soon though. Hope you manage the same.

 

Hope the sound bath is good. Im not sure it's for me! But anything that could help give it a try!

 

Yep what a ride! Sorry it's taking time to get stable Emsy. Youre doing great!

 

One day this will be a distant memory.

 

Chippy

Hi @Emsy. I hold on .3 mg Mirtazipine. It is my day 26 at that dose. I plan to go down to .27 mg but I am scary to rise my nocturne dopamine rushes and the morning terror. But these symptoms are present all the time after my CT of the 3 other ADs in March 2025. Is your drop from .3 mg to .2,5 mg was smooth? Thank you. Chat gpt indicates that so small dose can have a paradoxal effect causing more adrenaline rushes and upping the morning terror.

Svetla

Hi @skamen, my taper was smooth until I went from 1.5mg of 1.2mg which started withdrawal symptoms and I’ve been holding that dose since the middle of November waiting to stabilise.

Edited January 25Jan 25 by Emsy