Hello, I am new to this site, but was a lurker on SA (I did have an account but would prefer to start afresh here).

Thanks to Luke and Chippy, and others, for starting this site; it, and its predecessor SA, make such a difference to so many people.

I have been trying to come off citalopram since January 2024, so nearly 2.5 years, and have managed to get down to 1.25mg. Compared to many people here I have got off lightly so far, but it is still deeply unpleasant, and life-altering.

My story is similar to so many others. I accepted a prescription for citalopram in 2016 (-ish, not completely sure), when I was going through a period of stress, mainly caused by work, and a relentless home life- so just life really. I've always been a bit of a negative thinker, and other poor cognitive habits, but looking back I was not actually depressed, and never had been (I know what that feels like now though!).

Did the meds help? Yes, they probably did a bit, life felt a bit sunnier or sweeter somehow, a bit like adding sugar to your coffee. There weren't too many side effects, once the initial two weeks of feeling like zombie passed. I didn't feel numb or drugged, and apart from vivid dreams and odd visual things, it was okay.

Life carried on and all was well. Probably about 2 years later I decided it was time to stop, so tried a linear taper, getting down to 5mg over a couple of months. However, the brain zaps were almost incapacitating, so I returned to 20mg, thinking that I would need to wait until I retired from work before trying again.

At the start of 2024, life was on an even keel, and it seemed as good a time as any to try again. I started to reduce (20mg down to 4mg over about five months). Interestingly the brain zaps weren't an issue this time, and the first couple of months were fine. It's hard to remember exactly what happened, but it was as if I grey mist gradually descended over everything, and my energy and motivation just drained away. Also, there were sudden waves of doom and despair. I can only describe it as being like tentacles from hell reaching up to pull you under. After discovering Mark Horowitz work, and the gradual dawning of how long the process was going to be I held for 6-7 months, then started a slow Brass Monkey taper (10% of previous dose spread over 4 weeks, then hold for a week).

The taper is going a bit slower than scheduled, there have had to be some longer holds. I am learning that looking at the projected end date on the spreadsheet is only increasing the misery when the end date keeps slipping (and heading into my 70s…)

Symptoms over the two or so years have been the same, but different- if you know what I mean.  There are so many things about this process that are hard to put into words. The main things have been depression, paralysing lethargy and lack of motivation, waves and stabs of doom and profound psychological pain. When others have said they feel as though they are going to die I recognise that feeling, though cannot explain why.  Some of the feelings and sensations are frightening and many are truly weird; other people reading this may understand.  One thing is certain: I’ve never felt these things before starting medication.  It would help to undertand what is going on in my brain, and I’ve just read someone here mention changes to blood flow within the brain, which makes some sense.

The positives are that my sleep has never been affected (which makes me very fortunate I know) and there have been none of the physical symptoms so many people have. Most days I can function, albeit is a much reduced capacity.  Here again I am lucky because I am retired, so doing nothing has few real consequences.

I have really struggled to accept the situation and feel angry and resentful that this has happened. In part I blame the doctor who prescribed these pills (telling me several times that they are not addictive), but I did seek his help, and I did accept the presciption, so there is some self-blame too.  I know this is not helpful, but there it is.

I’ve been in a stubborn wave now for about seven weeks.  Not sure if the previous reductions were a bit too fast (it’s so tempting to try to shave off a few days here and there to speed things up).  Every other day for the last few weeks it seems to lift, only to be back to square one the next.  I want to get chipping away again, but don’t want to risk feeling worse. It’s a bit like being on a long train journey when the train breaks down outide the first station, even when it re-starts there will still be such a long way to go…Sometimes it’s tempting to stop CT, because then the only way is up.  But with a current SERT occupancy of 28%, and a target of 1% that would be foolish I know.

So really just wanted to lay this all out, for my own benefit really, so thank you for reading.  Just knowing that there is a community of people who understand is a great comfort.

Sending good wishes and solidarity to fellow travellers on this long and bumpy road.

Hi @RedRobin

Welcome to the forum!

 

This is a volunteer-run, community forum aimed at helping those who are tapering and/or experiencing difficulties with psychiatric medications and withdrawl syndrome. We are not medical professionals and cannot offer medical advice. We simply offer support and opinions which you could use as talking points with a medical provider knowledgeable in withdrawing off psychiatric medications.

 

Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules and the disclaimer located here: Guidelines

 

Please make sure your signature is kept up to date with your drug history. This will allow members to see some basic information about your drug history and situation so that they may help you best. Information on how to do this is located in the FAQs section above, but here is a direct link: Update Signature

Once this is done, future posts made by you will have this signature turned on by default. For this reason please keep it clear but condensed as possible.

Please use the format outline here Preferred signature/drug history format

25 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

Hello, I am new to this site, but was a lurker on SA (I did have an account but would prefer to start afresh here).

Thanks to Luke and Chippy, and others, for starting this site; it, and its predecessor SA, make such a difference to so many people.

I have been trying to come off citalopram since January 2024, so nearly 2.5 years, and have managed to get down to 1.25mg. Compared to many people here I have got off lightly so far, but it is still deeply unpleasant, and life-altering.

It is good to have you here, you are most welcome, I wish there was no need for a site like this but whilst there is, we hope to continue the work SA has done here.

Congratulations on getting down to 1.25mg.

27 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

My story is similar to so many others. I accepted a prescription for citalopram in 2016 (-ish, not completely sure), when I was going through a period of stress, mainly caused by work, and a relentless home life- so just life really. I've always been a bit of a negative thinker, and other poor cognitive habits, but looking back I was not actually depressed, and never had been (I know what that feels like now though!).

Did the meds help? Yes, they probably did a bit, life felt a bit sunnier or sweeter somehow, a bit like adding sugar to your coffee. There weren't too many side effects, once the initial two weeks of feeling like zombie passed. I didn't feel numb or drugged, and apart from vivid dreams and odd visual things, it was okay.

Yes this is a familar story, I hope one day we can live in a world where we no longer medicalise the human condition and try and treat it with drugs.

It is interesting you felt the drugs helped at first. As there is no evidence as to how they help, or proper research backing up that they are effective beyond placebo to any clinically significant level, I have always assumed they work by numbing people and making their emotions less 'loud', this was certainly the case for me. I am always interested in others perspectives and experiences.

It is interesting you talking about the zombie phase, I remember it well!

31 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

Life carried on and all was well. Probably about 2 years later I decided it was time to stop, so tried a linear taper, getting down to 5mg over a couple of months. However, the brain zaps were almost incapacitating, so I returned to 20mg, thinking that I would need to wait until I retired from work before trying again.

At the start of 2024, life was on an even keel, and it seemed as good a time as any to try again. I started to reduce (20mg down to 4mg over about five months). Interestingly the brain zaps weren't an issue this time, and the first couple of months were fine. It's hard to remember exactly what happened, but it was as if I grey mist gradually descended over everything, and my energy and motivation just drained away. Also, there were sudden waves of doom and despair. I can only describe it as being like tentacles from hell reaching up to pull you under. After discovering Mark Horowitz work, and the gradual dawning of how long the process was going to be I held for 6-7 months, then started a slow Brass Monkey taper (10% of previous dose spread over 4 weeks, then hold for a week).

It is very common to taper too quickly and in a linear fashion, as you know, the higher doses are often easier to come off, once you get down to the lower doses it is often very hard to continue, updosing resolves the symptoms, but you are left feeling that you need the drug. I think these attempts bruise the nervous system and make further attempts harder.

 

It is good you found sa, and learned about slow tapering, I like the BM slide, I think it is a good approach.

34 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

The taper is going a bit slower than scheduled, there have had to be some longer holds. I am learning that looking at the projected end date on the spreadsheet is only increasing the misery when the end date keeps slipping (and heading into my 70s…)

Symptoms over the two or so years have been the same, but different- if you know what I mean.  There are so many things about this process that are hard to put into words. The main things have been depression, paralysing lethargy and lack of motivation, waves and stabs of doom and profound psychological pain. When others have said they feel as though they are going to die I recognise that feeling, though cannot explain why.  Some of the feelings and sensations are frightening and many are truly weird; other people reading this may understand.  One thing is certain: I’ve never felt these things before starting medication.  It would help to undertand what is going on in my brain, and I’ve just read someone here mention changes to blood flow within the brain, which makes some sense.

Tapers rarely go as per a plan, it is so important to listen to your body on the way down, you were right to pause here and there and wait for things to settle down.

It sounds like you have had some quite nasty symptoms, do you normaly wait for them to be more managable before continuing?

No these are WD symptoms, of that I have no doubt! I wish we knew what was happening, but unfortunately we don't, the brain is a complex machine.

37 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

The positives are that my sleep has never been affected (which makes me very fortunate I know) and there have been none of the physical symptoms so many people have. Most days I can function, albeit is a much reduced capacity.  Here again I am lucky because I am retired, so doing nothing has few real consequences.

This is very good news, I am so pleased to see this, sleeping is very good for healing, and we do plenty of this during WD.

37 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

have really struggled to accept the situation and feel angry and resentful that this has happened. In part I blame the doctor who prescribed these pills (telling me several times that they are not addictive), but I did seek his help, and I did accept the presciption, so there is some self-blame too.  I know this is not helpful, but there it is.

You are not alone we have a whole thread about it. Acceptance is key - Why does acceptance feel impossible?

I think finding acceptance brings some peace and makes the symptoms easier. You should not feel bad you accepted the drugs, you were told they were safe and effective and the whole system is there to convince you, you needed them. It is not your fault!

Please do fill in your MHRA report (see my signature) when you have moment.

40 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

I’ve been in a stubborn wave now for about seven weeks.  Not sure if the previous reductions were a bit too fast (it’s so tempting to try to shave off a few days here and there to speed things up).  Every other day for the last few weeks it seems to lift, only to be back to square one the next.  I want to get chipping away again, but don’t want to risk feeling worse. It’s a bit like being on a long train journey when the train breaks down outide the first station, even when it re-starts there will still be such a long way to go…Sometimes it’s tempting to stop CT, because then the only way is up.  But with a current SERT occupancy of 28%, and a target of 1% that would be foolish I know.

Im not 100% sure of your monthly reductions, it sounds as though you may have been reducing at 10% the whole way? This is often too fast, especially on the lower doses.

I would certainly hold here until things settle down for you. I normally suggest a good strong period of symptoms being 1-3/10, I would say this is a kind of 'WD normal' baseline to work from. Once you have reached this point I would continue more cautiously, perhaps 5% BM slide and keep to the 2 weeks hold rather than just the one. You can of course pause at any point and you don't need to wait for your 2 week hold. I know you are keen to get off, but trust me, I have seen so many race off at the end and end up in WD. So please be careful from here on out. And certainly NO cold turkey!

Tapering Information

Micro Tapering

Preparing Doses for Tapering - Weighing & DIY Liquids

44 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

So really just wanted to lay this all out, for my own benefit really, so thank you for reading.  Just knowing that there is a community of people who understand is a great comfort.

Sending good wishes and solidarity to fellow travellers on this long and bumpy road

It really is great to have you here, thanks for telling us a bit about yourself. I hope your hold eases things soon for you.

In the mean time this is what I would do if I were you:

 

-Stay Hydrated 

 

-Eat a good clean whole food diet, avoiding processed foods and sugars.

 

-Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and antihistamines and any other psychoactive substances.

 

Supplements are to be avoided initially, as they often irritate our nervous systems. Try to get your nutrition through food.

 

Down the line, you may wish to introduce Fish Oil and Magnesium. Those who can tolerate them have found them calming to the nervous system. Be careful try one at a time and start low and see how you get on should you choose to try them.

 

A daily walk is very important as much as you can manage, if you can manage it. Gets you your fresh air and Vitamin D does wonders for your mind!

 

You are very welcome here and I hope you find the site supportive.

Chippy

1 hour ago, Chippy said:

Hi @RedRobin

Welcome to the forum!

 

This is a volunteer-run, community forum aimed at helping those who are tapering and/or experiencing difficulties with psychiatric medications and withdrawl syndrome. We are not medical professionals and cannot offer medical advice. We simply offer support and opinions which you could use as talking points with a medical provider knowledgeable in withdrawing off psychiatric medications.

 

Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules and the disclaimer located here: Guidelines

 

Please make sure your signature is kept up to date with your drug history. This will allow members to see some basic information about your drug history and situation so that they may help you best. Information on how to do this is located in the FAQs section above, but here is a direct link: Update Signature

Once this is done, future posts made by you will have this signature turned on by default. For this reason please keep it clear but condensed as possible.

Please use the format outline here Preferred signature/drug history format

It is good to have you here, you are most welcome, I wish there was no need for a site like this but whilst there is, we hope to continue the work SA has done here.

Congratulations on getting down to 1.25mg.

Yes this is a familar story, I hope one day we can live in a world where we no longer medicalise the human condition and try and treat it with drugs.

It is interesting you felt the drugs helped at first. As there is no evidence as to how they help, or proper research backing up that they are effective beyond placebo to any clinically significant level, I have always assumed they work by numbing people and making their emotions less 'loud', this was certainly the case for me. I am always interested in others perspectives and experiences.

1 hour ago, Chippy said:

Hi @RedRobin

Welcome to the forum!

 

This is a volunteer-run, community forum aimed at helping those who are tapering and/or experiencing difficulties with psychiatric medications and withdrawl syndrome. We are not medical professionals and cannot offer medical advice. We simply offer support and opinions which you could use as talking points with a medical provider knowledgeable in withdrawing off psychiatric medications.

 

Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules and the disclaimer located here: Guidelines

 

Please make sure your signature is kept up to date with your drug history. This will allow members to see some basic information about your drug history and situation so that they may help you best. Information on how to do this is located in the FAQs section above, but here is a direct link: Update Signature

Once this is done, future posts made by you will have this signature turned on by default. For this reason please keep it clear but condensed as possible.

Please use the format outline here Preferred signature/drug history format

It is good to have you here, you are most welcome, I wish there was no need for a site like this but whilst there is, we hope to continue the work SA has done here.

Congratulations on getting down to 1.25mg.

Yes this is a familar story, I hope one day we can live in a world where we no longer medicalise the human condition and try and treat it with drugs.

It is interesting you felt the drugs helped at first. As there is no evidence as to how they help, or proper research backing up that they are effective beyond placebo to any clinically significant level, I have always assumed they work by numbing people and making their emotions less 'loud', this was certainly the case for me. I am always interested in others perspectives and experiences.

It is interesting you talking about the zombie phase, I remember it well!

It is very common to taper too quickly and in a linear fashion, as you know, the higher doses are often easier to come off, once you get down to the lower doses it is often very hard to continue, updosing resolves the symptoms, but you are left feeling that you need the drug. I think these attempts bruise the nervous system and make further attempts harder.

 

It is good you found sa, and learned about slow tapering, I like the BM slide, I think it is a good approach.

Tapers rarely go as per a plan, it is so important to listen to your body on the way down, you were right to pause here and there and wait for things to settle down.

It sounds like you have had some quite nasty symptoms, do you normaly wait for them to be more managable before continuing?

No these are WD symptoms, of that I have no doubt! I wish we knew what was happening, but unfortunately we don't, the brain is a complex machine.

This is very good news, I am so pleased to see this, sleeping is very good for healing, and we do plenty of this during WD.

You are not alone we have a whole thread about it. Acceptance is key - Why does acceptance feel impossible?

I think finding acceptance brings some peace and makes the symptoms easier. You should not feel bad you accepted the drugs, you were told they were safe and effective and the whole system is there to convince you, you needed them. It is not your fault!

Please do fill in your MHRA report (see my signature) when you have moment.

Im not 100% sure of your monthly reductions, it sounds as though you may have been reducing at 10% the whole way? This is often too fast, especially on the lower doses.

I would certainly hold here until things settle down for you. I normally suggest a good strong period of symptoms being 1-3/10, I would say this is a kind of 'WD normal' baseline to work from. Once you have reached this point I would continue more cautiously, perhaps 5% BM slide and keep to the 2 weeks hold rather than just the one. You can of course pause at any point and you don't need to wait for your 2 week hold. I know you are keen to get off, but trust me, I have seen so many race off at the end and end up in WD. So please be careful from here on out. And certainly NO cold turkey!

Tapering Information

Micro Tapering

Preparing Doses for Tapering - Weighing & DIY Liquids

It really is great to have you here, thanks for telling us a bit about yourself. I hope your hold eases things soon for you.

In the mean time this is what I would do if I were you:

 

-Stay Hydrated 

 

-Eat a good clean whole food diet, avoiding processed foods and sugars.

 

-Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and antihistamines and any other psychoactive substances.

 

Supplements are to be avoided initially, as they often irritate our nervous systems. Try to get your nutrition through food.

 

Down the line, you may wish to introduce Fish Oil and Magnesium. Those who can tolerate them have found them calming to the nervous system. Be careful try one at a time and start low and see how you get on should you choose to try them.

 

A daily walk is very important as much as you can manage, if you can manage it. Gets you your fresh air and Vitamin D does wonders for your mind!

 

You are very welcome here and I hope you find the site supportive.

Chippy

It is interesting you talking about the zombie phase, I remember it well!

It is very common to taper too quickly and in a linear fashion, as you know, the higher doses are often easier to come off, once you get down to the lower doses it is often very hard to continue, updosing resolves the symptoms, but you are left feeling that you need the drug. I think these attempts bruise the nervous system and make further attempts harder.

 

It is good you found sa, and learned about slow tapering, I like the BM slide, I think it is a good approach.

Tapers rarely go as per a plan, it is so important to listen to your body on the way down, you were right to pause here and there and wait for things to settle down.

It sounds like you have had some quite nasty symptoms, do you normaly wait for them to be more managable before continuing?

No these are WD symptoms, of that I have no doubt! I wish we knew what was happening, but unfortunately we don't, the brain is a complex machine.

This is very good news, I am so pleased to see this, sleeping is very good for healing, and we do plenty of this during WD.

You are not alone we have a whole thread about it. Acceptance is key - Why does acceptance feel impossible?

I think finding acceptance brings some peace and makes the symptoms easier. You should not feel bad you accepted the drugs, you were told they were safe and effective and the whole system is there to convince you, you needed them. It is not your fault!

Please do fill in your MHRA report (see my signature) when you have moment.

Im not 100% sure of your monthly reductions, it sounds as though you may have been reducing at 10% the whole way? This is often too fast, especially on the lower doses.

I would certainly hold here until things settle down for you. I normally suggest a good strong period of symptoms being 1-3/10, I would say this is a kind of 'WD normal' baseline to work from. Once you have reached this point I would continue more cautiously, perhaps 5% BM slide and keep to the 2 weeks hold rather than just the one. You can of course pause at any point and you don't need to wait for your 2 week hold. I know you are keen to get off, but trust me, I have seen so many race off at the end and end up in WD. So please be careful from here on out. And certainly NO cold turkey!

Tapering Information

Micro Tapering

Preparing Doses for Tapering - Weighing & DIY Liquids

It really is great to have you here, thanks for telling us a bit about yourself. I hope your hold eases things soon for you.

In the mean time this is what I would do if I were you:

 

-Stay Hydrated 

 

-Eat a good clean whole food diet, avoiding processed foods and sugars.

 

-Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and antihistamines and any other psychoactive substances.

 

Supplements are to be avoided initially, as they often irritate our nervous systems. Try to get your nutrition through food.

 

Down the line, you may wish to introduce Fish Oil and Magnesium. Those who can tolerate them have found them calming to the nervous system. Be careful try one at a time and start low and see how you get on should you choose to try them.

 

A daily walk is very important as much as you can manage, if you can manage it. Gets you your fresh air and Vitamin D does wonders for your mind!

 

You are very welcome here and I hope you find the site supportive.

Chippy

thanks Chippy, for taking so much trouble to write a detailed reply. I haven't worked out yet how to quote /respond to any of our specific comments. I wonder why I felt better too- it could well be a placebo effect, or perhaps a slight numbing of emotions. I do remember being aware of feeling less strongly about things that annoyed me- which was definitely a good thing at the time. I do tend to allow myself to get stressed by trivial things, so calming this tendency gave some 'headspace' to reflect and move on (in retrospect taking a few deep breaths would have been safer!

I've been following the BM schedule fairly carefully, and only making a reduction when I feel stable. I stopped recording symptoms daily a while back because I didn't find it helpful. The last few cycles have been ok-ish, although the very last one (1.27 to 1.25 for goodness sake!) may have been a step too far. I don't know if anyone else feels an odd hot/cold tingling wave through the body- the sort of feeling when you see a gruesome image that makes 'your toes curl' for example. I've been having these briefly, mainly in the evenings, fo a while, but they had increased a bit just before the last cut. So perhaps that was a bit of a warning. They have definitely got worse this cut, and sometimes wake me from sleep. I read somewhere this could be a surge of cortisol but who really knows?

Anyway, thank you for your kind words and support.

4 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

thanks Chippy, for taking so much trouble to write a detailed reply

Pleasure @RedRobin

4 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

I haven't worked out yet how to quote /respond to any of our specific comments.

You highlight the text you want to quote, then click the quote button that should appear. You can do this as much as you want for each reply.

6 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

I wonder why I felt better too- it could well be a placebo effect, or perhaps a slight numbing of emotions. I do remember being aware of feeling less strongly about things that annoyed me- which was definitely a good thing at the time. I do tend to allow myself to get stressed by trivial things, so calming this tendency gave some 'headspace' to reflect and move on (in retrospect taking a few deep breaths would have been safer!

Thank you for sharing that. This is what I suspect happens. I too found it useful at the time. But I agree it’s not worth the risk of harm. It’s amazing how we now have to learn skills that would have kept us off the drugs in the first place!

7 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

I've been following the BM schedule fairly carefully, and only making a reduction when I feel stable.

Good to hear. Sounds like you’re been doing a great job.

8 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

I stopped recording symptoms daily a while back because I didn't find it helpful.

That’s fair enough.

9 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

The last few cycles have been ok-ish, although the very last one (1.27 to 1.25 for goodness sake!) may have been a step too far.

Yes I think most get to a point where it becomes necessary to hold, even updose, wait to stabilise and then reassess.

10 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

I don't know if anyone else feels an odd hot/cold tingling wave through the body- the sort of feeling when you see a gruesome image that makes 'your toes curl' for example. I've been having these briefly, mainly in the evenings, fo a while, but they had increased a bit just before the last cut. So perhaps that was a bit of a warning. They have definitely got worse this cut, and sometimes wake me from sleep. I read somewhere this could be a surge of cortisol but who really knows?

Yes this sounds a bit like a cortisol reaction to me. It’s common people describe a loathsome or creepy crawling feeling (others words I’ve heard from memory).

12 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

Anyway, thank you for your kind words and support.

You are so welcome. Hope you find the site a support place for you.

Chippy

Welcome @RedRobin A fellow traveller ....The road ahead has lots of twists and turns and definitely some bumps in the way ,but the good thing is you are never alone on this path. You have done a great job of getting down so low ,please don't get caught up with the focus on the destination, its more about the journey and making it as smooth as possible 🙏

Edited May 8May 8 by Beehive

Welcome @RedRobin , it's good to see you here.

A good thing I would like to say is, don't focus on the date of getting off that much, focus on the journey, it's better to take 2x as long or even more, and enjoy life in the process, rather than experiencing years of pain just to get off and still struggle for a while.

We will all make it and we will all be okay at the end, it's all temporary.

Welcome to the forum.

13 hours ago, RedRobin said:

I've been following the BM schedule fairly carefully, and only making a reduction when I feel stable. I stopped recording symptoms daily a while back because I didn't find it helpful.

It sounds like you've got a good grasp of much of the information presented on SA and here.

I have also never found recording daily symptoms helpful, although for me it was not in the context of tapering. If something is not helpful for you, it makes complete sense not to do it.

I hope that you find this forum supportive and that your taper goes well moving forwards. Sometimes people do improve on lower doses, so try not to look at the end date and see this as a point where you'll be doing well and stress about it being far away. It is difficult to predict that with any accuracy, as I'm sure you've seen in your time on SA.

Thank you Luke, your kind words make a difference. Just the suggestion that things might get better at lower doses gives a glimmer of hope.

19 hours ago, Beehive said:

Welcome @RedRobin A fellow traveller ....The road ahead has lots of twists and turns and definitely some bumps in the way ,but the good thing is you are never alone on this path. You have done a great job of getting down so low ,please don't get caught up with the focus on the destination, its more about the journey and making it as smooth as possible 🙏

Thank you @Beehive, it does help to know others are on the same path. Of the small handful of people I've talked to about this I would say that only two have shown any inkling of what this feels like. Which isn't surprising really, because it does all sound a bit unbelievable unless you've lived through it (I wouldn't believe it myself!).

I just had a quick look at your thread- you've had a really tough few months, I do hope the worst is over now. I can relate to so much of what you say. Thank you for your honesty and for sharing with us all.

19 hours ago, Beehive said:

Welcome @RedRobin A fellow traveller ....The road ahead has lots of twists and turns and definitely some bumps in the way ,but the good thing is you are never alone on this path. You have done a great job of getting down so low ,please don't get caught up with the focus on the destination, its more about the journey and making it as smooth as possible 🙏

19 hours ago, Beehive said:

Welcome @RedRobin A fellow traveller ....The road ahead has lots of twists and turns and definitely some bumps in the way ,but the good thing is you are never alone on this path. You have done a great job of getting down so low ,please don't get caught up with the focus on the destination, its more about the journey and making it as smooth as possible 🙏

19 hours ago, Lighty said:

Welcome @RedRobin , it's good to see you here.

A good thing I would like to say is, don't focus on the date of getting off that much, focus on the journey, it's better to take 2x as long or even more, and enjoy life in the process, rather than experiencing years of pain just to get off and still struggle for a while.

We will all make it and we will all be okay at the end, it's all temporary.

thank you @Lightly. I know you are right, but it's so hard to accept. I have enjoyed some things in the last couple of years, but it's definitely been greyer and diminished existence compared with the time before tapering. It's difficult to be rational in this current wave, but the idea of this misery- not quite constant, but never far away, repeating in cycles for years to come is grim.

Sorry for being so negative, just need to keep reminding myself it's temporary. (but may need to be reminded by others too! So thank you for being there)

22 hours ago, Chippy said:

22 hours ago, Chippy said:

Please do fill in your MHRA report (see my signature) when you have moment.

I have done this Chippy- thank you for promoting this. It is important.

Hi @RedRobin

Welcome to the forum!

 

This is a volunteer-run, community forum aimed at helping those who are tapering and/or experiencing difficulties with psychiatric medications and withdrawl syndrome. We are not medical professionals and cannot offer medical advice. We simply offer support and opinions which you could use as talking points with a medical provider knowledgeable in withdrawing off psychiatric medications.

 

Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules and the disclaimer located here: Guidelines

 

Please make sure your signature is kept up to date with your drug history. This will allow members to see some basic information about your drug history and situation so that they may help you best. Information on how to do this is located in the FAQs section above, but here is a direct link: Update Signature

Once this is done, future posts made by you will have this signature turned on by default. For this reason please keep it clear but condensed as possible.

Please use the format outline here Preferred signature/drug history format

It is good to have you here, you are most welcome, I wish there was no need for a site like this but whilst there is, we hope to continue the work SA has done here.

Congratulations on getting down to 1.25mg.

Yes this is a familar story, I hope one day we can live in a world where we no longer medicalise the human condition and try and treat it with drugs.

It is interesting you felt the drugs helped at first. As there is no evidence as to how they help, or proper research backing up that they are effective beyond placebo to any clinically significant level, I have always assumed they work by numbing people and making their emotions less 'loud', this was certainly the case for me. I am always interested in others perspectives and experiences.

It is interesting you talking about the zombie phase, I remember it well!

It is very common to taper too quickly and in a linear fashion, as you know, the higher doses are often easier to come off, once you get down to the lower doses it is often very hard to continue, updosing resolves the symptoms, but you are left feeling that you need the drug. I think these attempts bruise the nervous system and make further attempts harder.

 

It is good you found sa, and learned about slow tapering, I like the BM slide, I think it is a good approach.

Tapers rarely go as per a plan, it is so important to listen to your body on the way down, you were right to pause here and there and wait for things to settle down.

It sounds like you have had some quite nasty symptoms, do you normaly wait for them to be more managable before continuing?

No these are WD symptoms, of that I have no doubt! I wish we knew what was happening, but unfortunately we don't, the brain is a complex machine.

This is very good news, I am so pleased to see this, sleeping is very good for healing, and we do plenty of this during WD.

You are not alone we have a whole thread about it. Acceptance is key - Why does acceptance feel impossible?

I think finding acceptance brings some peace and makes the symptoms easier. You should not feel bad you accepted the drugs, you were told they were safe and effective and the whole system is there to convince you, you needed them. It is not your fault!

Please do fill in your MHRA report (see my signature) when you have moment.

Im not 100% sure of your monthly reductions, it sounds as though you may have been reducing at 10% the whole way? This is often too fast, especially on the lower doses.

I would certainly hold here until things settle down for you. I normally suggest a good strong period of symptoms being 1-3/10, I would say this is a kind of 'WD normal' baseline to work from. Once you have reached this point I would continue more cautiously, perhaps 5% BM slide and keep to the 2 weeks hold rather than just the one. You can of course pause at any point and you don't need to wait for your 2 week hold. I know you are keen to get off, but trust me, I have seen so many race off at the end and end up in WD. So please be careful from here on out. And certainly NO cold turkey!

Tapering Information

Micro Tapering

Preparing Doses for Tapering - Weighing & DIY Liquids

It really is great to have you here, thanks for telling us a bit about yourself. I hope your hold eases things soon for you.

In the mean time this is what I would do if I were you:

 

-Stay Hydrated 

 

-Eat a good clean whole food diet, avoiding processed foods and sugars.

 

-Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and antihistamines and any other psychoactive substances.

 

Supplements are to be avoided initially, as they often irritate our nervous systems. Try to get your nutrition through food.

 

Down the line, you may wish to introduce Fish Oil and Magnesium. Those who can tolerate them have found them calming to the nervous system. Be careful try one at a time and start low and see how you get on should you choose to try them.

 

A daily walk is very important as much as you can manage, if you can manage it. Gets you your fresh air and Vitamin D does wonders for your mind!

 

You are very welcome here and I hope you find the site supportive.

Chippy

30 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

thank you @Lightly. I know you are right, but it's so hard to accept. I have enjoyed some things in the last couple of years, but it's definitely been greyer and diminished existence compared with the time before tapering. It's difficult to be rational in this current wave, but the idea of this misery- not quite constant, but never far away, repeating in cycles for years to come is grim.

Sorry for being so negative, just need to keep reminding myself it's temporary. (but may need to be reminded by others too! So thank you for being there)

Make sure to keep a monk mindset, be the observer.

Doubt all thoughts and feelings and don't believe them if they are negative and false.

Edited May 9May 9 by Lighty

Thanks for filling in the MHRA report @RedRobin much appreciated

2 hours ago, Lighty said:

Make sure to keep a monk mindset, be the observer.

Doubt all thoughts and feelings and don't believe them if they are negative and false.

Gosh, that is an intriguing piece of advice! It made me smile, even if I'm not sure I know how to do it. So thank you for that @Lighty

@RedRobin warm welcome to the site. glad to have you here! youll find plenty of support and good people

Thank you for your welcome @Some0n3.

51 minutes ago, RedRobin said:

Gosh, that is an intriguing piece of advice! It made me smile, even if I'm not sure I know how to do it. So thank you for that @Lighty

I have two topics in the coping section, Also read about Acceptance.

Start doing meditations first and it will help you make sense of it.

On 5/8/2026 at 11:13 AM, RedRobin said:

I don't know if anyone else feels an odd hot/cold tingling wave through the body- the sort of feeling when you see a gruesome image that makes 'your toes curl' for example. I've been having these briefly, mainly in the evenings,

Me. Hand up here. Also was in the evenings. Definitely a serotonin thing brother. Not truly hot or cold but more the acute feeling of hot and cold if that makes any sense. It’s different from actually working up a sweat. But yeah. I feel ya.

thanks @Talltreescoldseas

Thanks for responding to my post. It's reassuring to know that other people know what I'm talking about; sometimes I think I'm just going mad.

I've just read through some of your thread,and your recent thumb mishap is just the sort of thing that would have caused the weird hot/cold/fine tingling sensation before tapering! I hope you start to return to 'WD normal' soon.

It'll be interesting to hear whether you have any success trying different supplements in the hope of modifying gene expression. You're a brave person!

I have a question about taking other prescribed medication. To be specific antihypertensives. I have been recommended a calcium channel blocker (CCB), but I am very wary about how it might worsen WD symptoms. Does anyone on this site have any experience of commencing a CCB during withdrawal?

The drug in question (like most of its type) enters the brain, although its pharmacological effect is mainly/ only on peripheral vascular smooth muscle, as far as I can work out. There has been one large study looking at the incidence of various neuropsychiatric diagnoses in people taking brain-penetrant CCBs compared with those that don't enter the brain, and interestingly there is a small reduction in risk for new diagnoses, but minimal effect on relapse in people with a previous diagnosis. This is only relevant insofar as there does seem to be some CNS effect.

I know to take only a tiny amount of any med to start, but was just wondering about others' experience.

And then, a similar question about statins ....(I seem to have reached that stage in life it seems!)

@RedRobin I’m not a fan of taking any meds when in wd tapering particularly ones which are psychoactive. There is some controversy over statins too. Honestly the whole drug industry and its trials leaves a lot to be desired. They are more interested in profits then patient care most of the time.

@LostinCanada have you any thoughts to add?

On the member Noblewarrior's thread statins have been discussed. If you want to look there...here are some relevant links:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/9487-statins-lipitor-and-others/#comment-165551

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/26099-feralcatman-recovering-from-seroquel/page/30/#findComment-696077

As I mentioned there, big Pharma does the testing, hides the negative results, "educates" the doctors and reaps the $$$.

It is important to weigh the risk/benefit...look for studies independent from big Pharma...check Google Scholar as an example.

I don't know anything about calcium channel blockers except that magnesium is a natural one.

Edited May 12May 12 by LostinCanada

3 hours ago, Chippy said:

@RedRobin I’m not a fan of taking any meds when in wd tapering particularly ones which are psychoactive. There is some controversy over statins too. Honestly the whole drug industry and its trials leaves a lot to be desired. They are more interested in profits then patient care most of the time.

@LostinCanada have you any thoughts to add?

Thanks for your speedy response @Chippy I completely agree about taking other meds. However, I hope that I will have a life again one day, and it would be a bit annoying to keel over with a heart attack or stroke just when I was able to live properly again! I've long been very sceptical of big Pharma (not quite sure how I ended up takings ADs...), and particularly when a particular drug is targeted at a large group of the seemingly healthy population. Neuropsychiatric effects are tricky to pick up in trials, even if they're looked for, so yes, it's a bit of a gamble.

I'll have a look at the links below.

thanks @LostinCanada That's really helpful. I'll have a good read tomorrow.

I completely agree about the shortcomings of the drug industry, and of course, studying the effects of a drug on brains of people recovering from injury like us would be very difficult, even if there was a desire to do so!

On 5/11/2026 at 10:48 AM, RedRobin said:

sometimes I think I'm just going mad.

Yeah don’t we all sometimes.

On 5/11/2026 at 10:48 AM, RedRobin said:

recent thumb mishap is just the sort of thing that would have caused the weird hot/cold/fine tingling sensation before tapering!

It definitely brought it back. Ugh. Seemingly randomly.

On 5/11/2026 at 10:48 AM, RedRobin said:

It'll be interesting to hear whether you have any success trying different supplements in the hope of modifying gene expression. You're a brave person!

Appreciate it. Most people think i’m probably pushing it a bit far but I’ve been working to try to isolate some gene sequences that make us more or less able to recover quickly.

Below this can be considered speculation so read on with a heaping tablespoon of salt but dont shit on it if it doesnt click everything together right now, it’s in progress.

I think i’ve seen three broadly different types of withdrawals/adverse reactions and recoveries. I can get into it a bit but it appears there are a few different things that can be switched on or off depending on what the reaction was. Some people are in the pool that has receptors that were habituated to the presence of the drug and when they come down slowly they get the usual withdrawal symptoms and return to baseline over time. Best case group. More linear trajectory, only factor is time and how well your body methylates. Fish oil, magnesium, methylfolate (active b9) and vitamin c (if that’s tolerable) appear to be the best combo to encourage the expression of more receptors.

The second cohort are the neurosteroid cohort, which is where you start seeing a little longer or weirder PAWS and etc. Neurosteroid production is modulated by a whole host of other genes and these are more complicated than just say “BDNF and MTHFR” genes. They generally cause add on effects or stack effects as serotonin can increase the production and release of allopregnenalone for instance. And then Allopregnenalone increases GABA and serotonin release which can lower cortisol and increase the synthesis of more allo. So this cohort might be dealing with down regulated receptors as well as messed up steroid signalling which can be a bit of a vicious circle. This is where you seem to start to see people who have serious windows and waves and potentially longer waves, recoveries that get worse before they get better, etc. Sometimes these people can’t tolerate certain supplements at certain times, because with the neurosteroid and hormone fluctuations it’s a bit more all over the map. Best thing for this appears to also be supporting proper epigenetic healing as above but sometimes people can benefit from supporting thyroid and liver function as well. Again, only if tolerated. This is where i think I am. partly because most of my problems come from glucocorticoids and not necesssarily ssri use

The third group is the adverse reactions group, which can be split in two. The first group basically has a brain freakout when they take the drugs and they recover much the same as the first group i talked about. Sometimes their acute is worse but often they recover quickly. The second half is the long recoverers (or, much more rarely, the partial recoverers) after an adverse reaction. These often include groups with collagen issues, tissue damage, stuff like that. Very severe physical reactions on top od the mental effects. I’ve been doing a lot of work going over papers and talking with my good friends, a couple of doctors, and a neuroscientist on this section, as i’m trying to help people if I can, having a bit of a background here (not just your average carpenter) and we’ve come up with a likely culprit in gene expression being altered on a much harder to switch back section of our genome. Extremis states caused by exogenous compounds can make rapid epigenetic changes, and make them quite enduring unfortunately. There are several groups that do share a lot of similar test results, with metabolites of hormones and gene tests coming up with the same points time and time again. Those are people who have: used accutane, used ashwagandha, used 5htp (myself in here), used mondoxil or finasteride, and those who experience profound and lasting pssd from serotogenic compounds. This is the toughest group as there are some fixes out there but they sre paradoxical in nature, what helps one person may harm someone else, and as of yet its very hard to tell which is which without experimentation which is dangerous as it could make it worse (don’t do it if you’re this type) but there is good news on the horizon is that i believe we are getting closer to understanding this. I have my full genetic map out in front of me and are taking things, checking boxes, targeting certain potentially problematic spots and trying to come up with a more precise theory than just “wait it out”

Which, I will stress, is still the absolute best most proven method of recovery with the highest chance of success and lowest chance of harm.

I just take chances a lot.