I URGENTLY NEED HELP ASAP PLEASE. ANY MODERATOR

Hey so I am 22. And life is ****. Taking a year off school because off the mess you'll read. I was only ever on lexapro. Why? Doc gave it to me for brain fog when I was 18.

For dates please look at my drug signature.

I hated the emotional blunting, was gaining weight, and didn't feel like myself. I tried tapering a year on lexapro but doc did a linear cut too fast to 10mg and I reinstated back to 20mg in a week.

I jumped down from 20 mg to 15mg no issues. Then went from 15 to 10 (too fast had to reinstate to 15).

Realizing I was sensitive I did research on survvignnantidepressants. Using their methods I was successfully tapering 10% every 2 weeks using a 0.001mg scale and x-acto knife dry cut. Had no withdrawal issues was a competitive boxer training twice a day and engineering uni student was fully functional and fine. No issues at all really aside from the occasional tearyness and irritation. My libido came back, I started dreaming again, and felt like my pre-medicated self. It was heaven and the best part of my life.

The downfall #1...

I didn't know about receptor occupancy downfall under 5mg, and I didn’t know u should go slowly at lower doses. So obviously I continued my taper feeling completely fine.

First week of june developed exercise intolerance, POTS like symptoms (palpitations, SOB, lightheaded) didn't know was related to tapering, assumed it was my low ferritin. That's what the doctors said I didn't tell my doc about my tapering because everytime I tried he didnt support how slow I was doing it and said I was micromanaging. But I cannot handle big jumps as I had tried years past to get off like that which didn't end too well.

Downfall #2

Took iron tablets and continued tapering, got more and more symptomatic (full body shivers with slight cold, seeing black upon standing, crying endlessly, couldn’t tolerate coffee) doc assumed it was low ferritin. Got iron infusion Aug 11. Got SI around 2.8mg and got concerned so decided to reinstate to 3.1mg. felt fineish and tapered back down to 2.8mg to not lose my progress. Made me way worse. Reinstated to 4.2mg since 3.1 wasn’t enough. Bad mistake :( kindled and got worse and ended up in ER. They said I changed doses too frequently and go back down to 2.8mg but I was too scared since I’d been at 4.2mg for 2 weeks.. but over those weeks I slowly got parasthesia, bad fine motor control issues in fingers, nausea.

Downfall #3

Was desperate atp. Decided to listen to doc because I didn’t trust myself and go up to 5mg by splitting a 10mg pill in half using pill splitter (doc's instructions) because he didn't know if my pill weighing with scale was accurate. Bad mistake.. (we don’t have 5mg lexapro pills in Canada)

I was fine for a bit just the first few days of reinstating was bad I ignored it since I had good windows. I take my dose same time everyday. Slowly more symptoms persisted but I assumed it was a part of the healing process and my body just releasing the tension from August. Gradually got insomnia, internal tremors, panic, anxiety, ruminating, endless symptoms. Now 2 months in and no windows been progressively worsening day by day for the past week and here’s my red flag: I'm having violent muscle spasms, endless ruminating, light/sound sensitivity, worse fine motor issues in fingers, twtiching tongue, eyes, mouth, DP/DR, jelly legs, anhedonia, twitching muscles, stiffness in toes too now. all symptoms worsened. They come and go but some are just here. But I can’t type on a laptop due to the motor issues in fingers and I’m applying to universities and have to fill out applications but I can’t :( I also have to do a CASPER for a university in march (I’m switching programs) so I need to be at least a bit stable for that. But a week ago I started researching… because I realized this couldn’t just be another wave.

I didn't realize but the pill splitter was causing variations but when I checked I was getting anywhere from 4.5-5.5mg daily even when the pills looked perfectly accurate :/// and I was in such a bad state I just wanted to trust the doctors. I messed up yet again. These past few months have just been me failing and making myself worse.

I went to my doctor with my current symptoms and he said “it’s just anxiety and side effects,” they should go away. I said they’re worsening. He said no it’s all mental you’re creating it. Wow so dismissive I was really down after that and my parents don’t even believe me anymore :( everyone thinks it’s in my head.

So now I've just been using a gemini-50 scale to weigh accurately as possible and dry cut since oct 23 (only 2 days so far) but I'm wondering is this method accurate enough for me to heal from being kindled? Because the scale has the precision errors?

I'm too scared to try liquids in this condition but my pharmacy does have a lexapro liquid. and want to do ANYTHING to get better. I know liquids are accurate but I’m very sensitive to anything atm. I've been through too much.

Is a compounding capsule pharmacy like pharmacy.ca okay? The problem is it’s a different brand so idk if that matters due to fillers. They said there can be a 5% variation tho which is HUGE imo 4.75-5.25mg.

Im not sure… I'm pretty lost on what to do. Is a compounding pharmacy variations okay? Is Gemini variations okay? Is it safe to switch to liquid if I’m kindled and hypersensitive. I just need to stabilize. Should I taper? Or hold? And if hold then how? What method?

PLEASE HELP ME ASAP. My condition has been deteriorating day by day. I feel so stiff. Like I’m 90 years old. i can't handle getting any worse, I feel like I've lost everything... I'm off school, can't exercise, feel like a zombie with parkinsonism, I just feel so lost someone please help me I don't know what to do...

Welcome to the forum!

 

This is a volunteer-run, community forum aimed at helping those who are tapering and/or experiencing difficulties with psychiatric medications and withdrawal syndrome. We are not medical professionals and cannot offer medical advice. We simply offer support and opinions which you could use as talking points with a medical provider knowledgeable in withdrawing off psychiatric medications.

The value of this forum is in the community it fosters. We hope that all of our members will be able to learn from each others' experiences, both the good and the bad. To this end, we strongly encourage members to not only document their personal journey on their own thread, but to read and post on other members' threads and otherwise make full use of the resources available throughout the forum.

 

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Please use the format outline here Preferred signature/drug history format

2 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

Hey so I am 22. And life is ****. Taking a year off school because off the mess you'll read. I was only ever on lexapro. Why? Doc gave it to me for brain fog when I was 18.

For dates please look at my drug signature.

I hated the emotional blunting, was gaining weight, and didn't feel like myself. I tried tapering a year on lexapro but doc did a linear cut too fast to 10mg and I reinstated back to 20mg in a week.

I'm so sorry to read about the tough time you've had recently you will find plenty of support here for sure.

Emotional blunting is what I see most people report whilst on the drugs, I think this is the main benefit people see when taking them, dialing down your emotions during a hard time can be helpful, many want to come off them due to this effect alone. Being prescribed them for brain fog, is frankly a shot in the dark from your doctor and at such a young age too I am sorry.

2 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

jumped down from 20 mg to 15mg no issues. Then went from 15 to 10 (too fast had to reinstate to 15).

Realizing I was sensitive I did research on survvignnantidepressants. Using their methods I was successfully tapering 10% every 2 weeks using a 0.001mg scale and x-acto knife dry cut. Had no withdrawal issues was a competitive boxer training twice a day and engineering uni student was fully functional and fine. No issues at all really aside from the occasional tearyness and irritation. My libido came back, I started dreaming again, and felt like my pre-medicated self. It was heaven and the best part of my life.

Neither SA or us suggest making reductions more frequently than 10% of your last dose every 30 days not two weeks. Due to the hyperbolic relationship of dose to effect on the brain, many can make large cuts at the start, but as they get lower they most go much much slower.Tapering Information

 

2 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

The downfall #1...

I didn't know about receptor occupancy downfall under 5mg, and I didn’t know u should go slowly at lower doses. So obviously I continued my taper feeling completely fine.

First week of june developed exercise intolerance, POTS like symptoms (palpitations, SOB, lightheaded) didn't know was related to tapering, assumed it was my low ferritin. That's what the doctors said I didn't tell my doc about my tapering because everytime I tried he didnt support how slow I was doing it and said I was micromanaging. But I cannot handle big jumps as I had tried years past to get off like that which didn't end too well.

This is obviously where you hit a wall with the taper, something to be aware of is that WD symptoms can be delayed and stack, so it could be that the fast tapering just caught up with you rather than you hit a specfic dose and then got into trouble. Either way it is a shame doctors still often dont support patient lead slow tapering.

2 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

Downfall #2

Took iron tablets and continued tapering, got more and more symptomatic (full body shivers with slight cold, seeing black upon standing, crying endlessly, couldn’t tolerate coffee) doc assumed it was low ferritin. Got iron infusion Aug 11. Got SI around 2.8mg and got concerned so decided to reinstate to 3.1mg. felt fineish and tapered back down to 2.8mg to not lose my progress. Made me way worse. Reinstated to 4.2mg since 3.1 wasn’t enough. Bad mistake :( kindled and got worse and ended up in ER. They said I changed doses too frequently and go back down to 2.8mg but I was too scared since I’d been at 4.2mg for 2 weeks.. but over those weeks I slowly got parasthesia, bad fine motor control issues in fingers, nausea.

Two things going on here. One, it has been seen supplements can make people worse and I have seen people report infusions trigger a severe response. Obviously, 2 you continued to taper without being stable followed by moving your dose around too frequently to try to stablise, this as you suggest here causes kindling, a kind of nervous system irritation through making those changes whilst hyper senstive. Hypersensitivity and kindling

2 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

Downfall #3

Was desperate atp. Decided to listen to doc because I didn’t trust myself and go up to 5mg by splitting a 10mg pill in half using pill splitter (doc's instructions) because he didn't know if my pill weighing with scale was accurate. Bad mistake.. (we don’t have 5mg lexapro pills in Canada)

I was fine for a bit just the first few days of reinstating was bad I ignored it since I had good windows. I take my dose same time everyday. Slowly more symptoms persisted but I assumed it was a part of the healing process and my body just releasing the tension from August. Gradually got insomnia, internal tremors, panic, anxiety, ruminating, endless symptoms. Now 2 months in and no windows been progressively worsening day by day for the past week and here’s my red flag: I'm having violent muscle spasms, endless ruminating, light/sound sensitivity, worse fine motor issues in fingers, twtiching tongue, eyes, mouth, DP/DR, jelly legs, anhedonia, twitching muscles, stiffness in toes too now. all symptoms worsened. They come and go but some are just here. But I can’t type on a laptop due to the motor issues in fingers and I’m applying to universities and have to fill out applications but I can’t :( I also have to do a CASPER for a university in march (I’m switching programs) so I need to be at least a bit stable for that. But a week ago I started researching… because I realized this couldn’t just be another wave.

I didn't realize but the pill splitter was causing variations but when I checked I was getting anywhere from 4.5-5.5mg daily even when the pills looked perfectly accurate :/// and I was in such a bad state I just wanted to trust the doctors. I messed up yet again. These past few months have just been me failing and making myself worse.

I went to my doctor with my current symptoms and he said “it’s just anxiety and side effects,” they should go away. I said they’re worsening. He said no it’s all mental you’re creating it. Wow so dismissive I was really down after that and my parents don’t even believe me anymore :( everyone thinks it’s in my head.

Unfortunately here you are being misled badly by your doctor. Updosing to 5mg in your kindled state was likley a bad move. Suggesting a pill cutter is more accurate than weighing the pill and cutting is unreal tbh, and then suggesting this is all in your head is full on gas lighting but sadly typical of many patients experiences.

2 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

I didn't realize but the pill splitter was causing variations but when I checked I was getting anywhere from 4.5-5.5mg daily even when the pills looked perfectly accurate :/// and I was in such a bad state I just wanted to trust the doctors. I messed up yet again. These past few months have just been me failing and making myself worse.

I went to my doctor with my current symptoms and he said “it’s just anxiety and side effects,” they should go away. I said they’re worsening. He said no it’s all mental you’re creating it. Wow so dismissive I was really down after that and my parents don’t even believe me anymore :( everyone thinks it’s in my head.

So now I've just been using a gemini-50 scale to weigh accurately as possible and dry cut since oct 23 (only 2 days so far) but I'm wondering is this method accurate enough for me to heal from being kindled? Because the scale has the precision errors?

I'm too scared to try liquids in this condition but my pharmacy does have a lexapro liquid. and want to do ANYTHING to get better. I know liquids are accurate but I’m very sensitive to anything atm. I've been through too much.

Is a compounding capsule pharmacy like pharmacy.ca okay? The problem is it’s a different brand so idk if that matters due to fillers. They said there can be a 5% variation tho which is HUGE imo 4.75-5.25mg.

Using your Gem-20 scales is the correct thing to do here.

2 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

Im not sure… I'm pretty lost on what to do. Is a compounding pharmacy variations okay? Is Gemini variations okay? Is it safe to switch to liquid if I’m kindled and hypersensitive. I just need to stabilize. Should I taper? Or hold? And if hold then how? What method?

PLEASE HELP ME ASAP. My condition has been deteriorating day by day. I feel so stiff. Like I’m 90 years old. i can't handle getting any worse, I feel like I've lost everything... I'm off school, can't exercise, feel like a zombie with parkinsonism, I just feel so lost someone please help me I don't know what to do...

Firstly you need to get a consistent dose. Using the scale is 100% the way to go. Changing from pill to liquid or moving to a different brand can be VERY destablising for people and should ideally only be done from a place of stablity using our crossover method mentioned in this topic here. Preparing Doses for Tapering - Weighing & DIY Liquids

Your nervous system is very unhappy right now.

True WD is where the brain becomes dependent on a drug, then when thte drug is removed or reduced too quickly it lets you know about it with WD symptoms. RI the drug or increasing the dose CAN help with this as it is giving the body back what it is missing.

However this kind of dose shifting can also lead to an apparent injury. RI or increasing the dose can lead to a worsening of these symptoms. Here is our document on RI which might be useful for you to read, however you have been updosing which is similar but not quite the same. Reinstating an Antidepressant

There wont be a perfect dose that is going to solve all this for you over night IMO. What I would do now is keep doing what you are doing, take the same dose, same time, every day and long hold until things settle down for you. This can need to be a very long hold for some. But trying to move your dose around now will likley make this worse and worse. Make sure you take the same weight of pill mass each day. We normally suggest getting an average pill weight of 10 pills and using that to calculate your dose. Dont weigh each pill and aim for half that weight, that can result in dose fluctuations.

We are here for you. Have a good read of our coping skills section start with this one. Acceptance is key - Why does acceptance feel impossible?

In the mean time this is what I would do if I were you:

 

-Stay Hydrated 

 

-Eat a good clean whole food diet, avoiding processed foods and sugars.

 

-Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and antihistamines and any other psychoactive substances.

 

Supplements are to be avoided initially, as they often irritate our nervous systems. Try to get your nutrition through food.

 

Down the line, you may wish to introduce Fish Oil and Magnesium. Those who can tolerate them have found them calming to the nervous system. Be careful try one at a time and start low and see how you get on should you choose to try them.

 

A daily walk is very important as much as you can manage, if you can manage it. Gets you your fresh air and Vitamin D does wonders for your mind!

 

You are very welcome here and I hope you find the site supportive.

Chippy

I wholeheartedly agree with @Chippy above. Unfortunately, it seems your taper was still too fast and all those small cuts had a cumulative effect in June.

Please don’t be hard on yourself. You did the best you could under the circumstances. Many of us have been there.

What’s important now is to try not to make any further changes. I know it’s easier said then done, but your body does need a moment to catch up.

Ultimately, it’s up to you. Please remember we are not medical professionals, though I accept many medical professionals are still in the dark when it comes to deprescribing safely. But, what any of us shares should just be taken as general guidance from our lived experience because we are all different.

For now, it’s worth remembering the old adage “take one day at a time”, even moment by moment. Please take care of yourself and do get medical help if you struggle with uncomfortable mental health symptoms. Even a service like Shout/Crisis text line can be helpful. Their details are here https://www.crisistextline.org.

First of all @Chippy and @WeLiveInHope thank you SO much for replying to me. You don’t know how much this means to me. I felt so so alone. It feels like nobody understands and my parents are being gaslit by my doctor. In Canada I’ve seen so many doctors and literally nobody could help me. Ive heard “it’s just anxiety” so many times I swear it’s actually crazy. My tongue is twitching from ANXIETY?! I’ve spoken to pharmacists, my cousin who is a doctor, and my cousin who suffered from a CT (she’s been my lifeline), but nobody was really able to help. My CT cousin said that it’s just a wave and it’s normal for new symptoms to appear but I knew I was worsening.

I have a few questions if you don’t mind answering.

1. Since I was a competitive boxer and I ran daily, could that not be why I had no issue tapering 10% every 2 weeks? I heard about neuroplasticity being faster through training. And I trained for hours daily. Maybe I’m wrong but i just felt completely normal. I suppose my exercise was masking the symptoms…

2. Might be a dumb question but I’m asking because I’ve thought of it several times lately: can I cold turkey so I can just suffer for a year and be done with all this soon? Because I see success stories from cold turkeying but not kindling

3. I have a Gem-50 not Gem-20 is that okay?

4. My doctor suggested switching to a different SSRI so I don’t have to split pills anymore, isn’t that dangerous? It sounds promising but idk…

5. Isn’t the Gem-20 inaccurate too? Since there’s a variability. That’s the only reason I suggested the compounding pharmacy but you’re right it could be risky. What are ways to ensure accuracy of the gem method?

6. The pill mass I averaged is 0.068g, but sometimes the scale says it’s 0.069g or 0.067g? Is it okay to take those or only 0.068g?

7. Should I calibrate the scale before each use? And what about the nickel method?

8. Can I cut my pills for 1 week together or must I do it daily?

9. I’m going to India in 1 week for a few months (my whole family is there and they’re gonna support me through this aka baby me lol since I don’t have anyone here aside from my parents) should I take the pill in India according to Canada time?

10. Should I put the lid on the Gemini scale when measuring?

11. How will I know I’m stabilizing? Can I find out in a week or so or could it take months. I ask this because I want some proof that what I’m doing isn’t causing more harm (the weighing or inaccuracies of scale).

12. Did I permanently damage myself like PAWS? I mean I did a LOT of dose shifting sadly I didn’t know any better :( Or like for a few years? And ngl I haven’t seen anyone with like 30+ symptoms like me unless they were on multiple meds. Even CT stories didn’t seem to have all these symptoms but maybe I’m wrong.

13. Could my symptoms worsen the next few months even if I weigh? I’m just not sure how much more symptoms I can handle really. I already can’t eat, sleep, or do much due to anhedonia and the muscle spasms causing like aching and weaknessish.

14. Does the waves and windows pattern still apply to me since I kindled or no?

15. I’m scared I have akathasia and I feel restless but I cant

    tell if it’s anxiety or inner akathasia If I develop it then what can I do? It’s my biggest fear ngl.

16. Can dukoral or a travel vaccine have caused issues ?

I went from punching people and being in the best state of my life, to this. Sorry it’s depressing. Just hope things look better.

Sorry for all the questions!

Just wanna vent hope nobody minds :)…

I can’t believe how much tapering these drugs took away from me. But in a way this experience showed me so much as well. Who is there for me, what matters in life, and what suffering feels like. lol will be useful as a nurse, whenever I hopefully stabilize. Trying to stay positive as I’ve been bed rotting for 3 days that’s how terrified I’ve been lol my poor family. It’s just hard when I feel on edge and there’s just no doctor that can understand. Since june I’ve been to the ER 5+ times, ambulance was called 3-4 times (almost passed out after run in June, had my first panic attack, and so much more lol).

My family has been so supportive and I truly and so thankful for them and this community. Thank you for welcoming me. I will definitely need your support through this :)

Okay done with the venting I just needed someone to hear all this thank you.

Edited Saturday at 09:17 AM2 days by StrugglingKid

1 hour ago, StrugglingKid said:

First of all @Chippy and @WeLiveInHope thank you SO much for replying to me. You don’t know how much this means to me. I felt so so alone. It feels like nobody understands and my parents are being gaslit by my doctor. In Canada I’ve seen so many doctors and literally nobody could help me. Ive heard “it’s just anxiety” so many times I swear it’s actually crazy. My tongue is twitching from ANXIETY?! I’ve spoken to pharmacists, my cousin who is a doctor, and my cousin who suffered from a CT (she’s been my lifeline), but nobody was really able to help. My CT cousin said that it’s just a wave and it’s normal for new symptoms to appear but I knew I was worsening.

Pleasure Im glad we can help you.

1 hour ago, StrugglingKid said:

I have a few questions if you don’t mind answering.

Thata a lot of questions but I will try,

1. Since I was a competitive boxer and I ran daily, could that not be why I had no issue tapering 10% every 2 weeks? I heard about neuroplasticity being faster through training. And I trained for hours daily. Maybe I’m wrong but i just felt completely normal. I suppose my exercise was masking the symptoms… I dont thnk this has anything to do with how you could taper quickly. Its just how your body coped, plus at the higher doses this is less of an issue. As I said WD can stack so that is possibly what happened here too.

2. Might be a dumb question but I’m asking because I’ve thought of it several times lately: can I cold turkey so I can just suffer for a year and be done with all this soon? Because I see success stories from cold turkeying but not kindling We dont suggest CT. People recover from nervous system harm all the time. If you stop CT things will most likley worsen and your potential outcome could be much worse. Holding to stablise and then carefully tapering from there is the safer option.

3. I have a Gem-50 not Gem-20 is that okay? This is fine.

4. My doctor suggested switching to a different SSRI so I don’t have to split pills anymore, isn’t that dangerous? It sounds promising but idk… I would strongly suggest you dont do this. Switching will more than likley hurt your nervous system more and make this worse.

5. Isn’t the Gem-20 inaccurate too? Since there’s a variability. That’s the only reason I suggested the compounding pharmacy but you’re right it could be risky. What are ways to ensure accuracy of the gem method? All these systems are inacurate to an extent. You can buy better scales. IMO its more than accurate enough. Just makes sure there is no breeze. Use it on a level surface. I would suggest putting the weights that come with scales on the scales table and the hitting 'tar' to zero the scales. This loads the table and makes them more accurate in my experience. Once stable if you wanted to switch to a liquid or compounded option then this could be something you could crossover carefully to. For the minute this is perfect.

6. The pill mass I averaged is 0.068g, but sometimes the scale says it’s 0.069g or 0.067g? Is it okay to take those or only 0.068g? I assume you are talking about he actual weight of a whole pill? If so then just weigh 10 pills, divide that by 10 and that is the average weight of a pill. Half of that is the weight to shoot for with your scales. Dont worry about variation in weight between pills. The drug is evenly distributed across the pill. Pills that weigh more actually contain more drug then ones that dont.

7. Should I calibrate the scale before each use? And what about the nickel method? You can if you want check calibration each time. Then tar the scales so they read zero as I said above. I would just use the weights that come with your scales. Dont over think this. Youll be fine.

8. Can I cut my pills for 1 week together or must I do it daily? I think this is fine to do. Just store in an air tight container.

9. I’m going to India in 1 week for a few months (my whole family is there and they’re gonna support me through this aka baby me lol since I don’t have anyone here aside from my parents) should I take the pill in India according to Canada time? I would take it on Canada time still so not to disturb your nervous system further. When you feel more stable you could carefully, an hour at a time, move the dose until you take it at a time that is more convenient for you.

10. Should I put the lid on the Gemini scale when measuring? You mean the plastic lid that covers the scales when stored? If yes, then no. :)

11. How will I know I’m stabilizing? Can I find out in a week or so or could it take months. I ask this because I want some proof that what I’m doing isn’t causing more harm (the weighing or inaccuracies of scale). We suggest being stable is being able to rate your symptoms mild or 1-3/10. The process of stablisation can take a very long time for some, think months not days potentially. During this process you can have waves and windows and symptoms fluctuate. It can feel like you are getting worse, but this is part of the process. It is important to stand your ground and keep holding and let things settle down. The body knows best.

12. Did I permanently damage myself like PAWS? I mean I did a LOT of dose shifting sadly I didn’t know any better :( Or like for a few years? And ngl I haven’t seen anyone with like 30+ symptoms like me unless they were on multiple meds. Even CT stories didn’t seem to have all these symptoms but maybe I’m wrong. Most people think they are unique and cant heal and there is no one like them. The reality is we are all the same in our own unique way though. What is seen in the community is, that if left alone, the body is amazing and can bounce back. Once you are stable you can slowly and carefully taper off the drug. There is no reason you need to think you will have protracted withdrawal. One day at a time. You are young and fit, you can totally recover from this.

13. Could my symptoms worsen the next few months even if I weigh? I’m just not sure how much more symptoms I can handle really. I already can’t eat, sleep, or do much due to anhedonia and the muscle spasms causing like aching and weaknessish. This unfortunately is totally possible. We just dont know. Main thing is to try to not worry too much about it and be present in the day. Just one day at a time is very important indeed. Like I said before acceptance is key. Put much of your time into working on daily practices that help you cope from day to day rather than worrying about what may or may not happen in the future.

14. Does the waves and windows pattern still apply to me since I kindled or no? 100% Waves and windows pattern is seen right across the community from those tapering to those off the drug. Try not to over think the concept of kindled. We all have some element of kindling in our journey I suspect. Its not a disease or something you cant recover from. Just a word used to describe a sensitive nervous system being made worse by changes etc.....

15. I’m scared I have akathasia and I feel restless but I cant

    tell if it’s anxiety or inner akathasia If I develop it then what can I do? It’s my biggest fear ngl. There is a lot of fear around Kindling and Akathisia. Again dont label your symptoms or worry about them. Some level of restlessness is seen in many in the community it is a common symptom. Just one day at a time. What ever the symptom, you can still recover and stablise.

16. Can dukoral or a travel vaccine have caused issues ? We generally suggest not taking other drugs where at all possible. We focus mainly on drugs with psycho active properties (dukoral is not one of them) however as a general rule you want to keep things as natural as you can.

1 hour ago, StrugglingKid said:

I went from punching people and being in the best state of my life, to this. Sorry it’s depressing. Just hope things look better.

Sorry for all the questions!

Just wanna vent hope nobody minds :)…

No one minds, its what we are here for. x

1 hour ago, StrugglingKid said:

I can’t believe how much tapering these drugs took away from me. But in a way this experience showed me so much as well. Who is there for me, what matters in life, and what suffering feels like. lol will be useful as a nurse, whenever I hopefully stabilize. Trying to stay positive as I’ve been bed rotting for 3 days that’s how terrified I’ve been lol my poor family. It’s just hard when I feel on edge and there’s just no doctor that can understand. Since june I’ve been to the ER 5+ times, ambulance was called 3-4 times (almost passed out after run in June, had my first panic attack, and so much more lol).

My family has been so supportive and I truly and so thankful for them and this community. Thank you for welcoming me. I will definitely need your support through this :)

Okay done with the venting I just needed someone to hear all this thank you.

We all relate with this. I also agree there are lesson to be learned in WD that can be very helpful after this is all over. The fact you can see this now is amazing. Well done. :)

Having supportive family will help loads. Not everyone is so lucky. Hang onto them.

Let us know how you are going forwards.

Chippy

1 hour ago, StrugglingKid said:

First of all @Chippy and @WeLiveInHope thank you SO much for replying to me. You don’t know how much this means to me. I felt so so alone. It feels like nobody understands and my parents are being gaslit by my doctor. In Canada I’ve seen so many doctors and literally nobody could help me. Ive heard “it’s just anxiety” so many times I swear it’s actually crazy. My tongue is twitching from ANXIETY?! I’ve spoken to pharmacists, my cousin who is a doctor, and my cousin who suffered from a CT (she’s been my lifeline), but nobody was really able to help. My CT cousin said that it’s just a wave and it’s normal for new symptoms to appear but I knew I was worsening.

I have a few questions if you don’t mind answering.

1. Since I was a competitive boxer and I ran daily, could that not be why I had no issue tapering 10% every 2 weeks? I heard about neuroplasticity being faster through training. And I trained for hours daily. Maybe I’m wrong but i just felt completely normal. I suppose my exercise was masking the symptoms…

2. Might be a dumb question but I’m asking because I’ve thought of it several times lately: can I cold turkey so I can just suffer for a year and be done with all this soon? Because I see success stories from cold turkeying but not kindling

3. I have a Gem-50 not Gem-20 is that okay?

4. My doctor suggested switching to a different SSRI so I don’t have to split pills anymore, isn’t that dangerous? It sounds promising but idk…

5. Isn’t the Gem-20 inaccurate too? Since there’s a variability. That’s the only reason I suggested the compounding pharmacy but you’re right it could be risky. What are ways to ensure accuracy of the gem method?

6. The pill mass I averaged is 0.068g, but sometimes the scale says it’s 0.069g or 0.067g? Is it okay to take those or only 0.068g?

7. Should I calibrate the scale before each use? And what about the nickel method?

8. Can I cut my pills for 1 week together or must I do it daily?

9. I’m going to India in 1 week for a few months (my whole family is there and they’re gonna support me through this aka baby me lol since I don’t have anyone here aside from my parents) should I take the pill in India according to Canada time?

10. Should I put the lid on the Gemini scale when measuring?

11. How will I know I’m stabilizing? Can I find out in a week or so or could it take months. I ask this because I want some proof that what I’m doing isn’t causing more harm (the weighing or inaccuracies of scale).

12. Did I permanently damage myself like PAWS? I mean I did a LOT of dose shifting sadly I didn’t know any better :( Or like for a few years? And ngl I haven’t seen anyone with like 30+ symptoms like me unless they were on multiple meds. Even CT stories didn’t seem to have all these symptoms but maybe I’m wrong.

13. Could my symptoms worsen the next few months even if I weigh? I’m just not sure how much more symptoms I can handle really. I already can’t eat, sleep, or do much due to anhedonia and the muscle spasms causing like aching and weaknessish.

14. Does the waves and windows pattern still apply to me since I kindled or no?

15. I’m scared I have akathasia and I feel restless but I cant

    tell if it’s anxiety or inner akathasia If I develop it then what can I do? It’s my biggest fear ngl.

16. Can dukoral or a travel vaccine have caused issues ?

I went from punching people and being in the best state of my life, to this. Sorry it’s depressing. Just hope things look better.

Sorry for all the questions!

Just wanna vent hope nobody minds :)…

I can’t believe how much tapering these drugs took away from me. But in a way this experience showed me so much as well. Who is there for me, what matters in life, and what suffering feels like. lol will be useful as a nurse, whenever I hopefully stabilize. Trying to stay positive as I’ve been bed rotting for 3 days that’s how terrified I’ve been lol my poor family. It’s just hard when I feel on edge and there’s just no doctor that can understand. Since june I’ve been to the ER 5+ times, ambulance was called 3-4 times (almost passed out after run in June, had my first panic attack, and so much more lol).

My family has been so supportive and I truly and so thankful for them and this community. Thank you for welcoming me. I will definitely need your support through this :)

Okay done with the venting I just needed someone to hear all this thank you.

Your welcome.

That is a lot of questions, and while I am tempted to answer some I can see @Chippy had already done an almost exponential job of responding.

I think you may benefit from spending some time here or on the SA website on guidance around tapering. Much of it while answer your questions.

Try and do some familiar relaxing things too to help distract yourself from the horribleness of it all. If something doesn’t work, try something else such as a favourite film or a gentle walk.

Hey guys. Just wondering if the Gemini scale will be enough for me to stabilize? I ask this because I feel that I’m just in such bad shape.

These days it’s hard to stand too much due to the jelly feeling in legs and my arms are also feeling the weird stiffness. It’s pretty discouraging.

I did have a brief window today for like 1 hour but that’s all. I will be booking a consultation with Trudy Slaght.

I just feel pretty hopeless and need some hope. I can’t live the rest of my life like this. And if for some reason I mess up with the Gemini thing again I’ll have another set-back and I don’t think my body can handle that right now.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Edited Saturday at 06:40 PM2 days by StrugglingKid

Sorry I am spiraling I know

44 minutes ago, StrugglingKid said:

Hey guys. Just wondering if the Gemini scale will be enough for me to stabilize? I ask this because I feel that I’m just in such bad shape.

These days it’s hard to stand too much due to the jelly feeling in legs and my arms are also feeling the weird stiffness. It’s pretty discouraging.

Hey @StrugglingKid. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. A lot of people here use the Gemini scale and do fine with it. I use it myself, and I have been slowly stabilizing over the past 6.5 months after being in pretty bad shape myself.

I know things are really scary right now, but try your best not to overthink things. We've all made mistakes along the way because of bad medical advice, but you're doing the right thing now. Your body knows how to stabilize, even if it can take a long time.

53 minutes ago, StrugglingKid said:

I did have a brief window today for like 1 hour but that’s all.

It's really great that you had a window, this is such a good sign 💜

54 minutes ago, StrugglingKid said:

I just feel pretty hopeless and need some hope. I can’t live the rest of my life like this. And if for some reason I mess up with the Gemini thing again I’ll have another set-back and I don’t think my body can handle that right now.

This will not be the rest of your life. So many people have come before us and recovered, you will too.

As you say, it sounds like you're spiralling quite a bit. This can be a long journey, so I'd recommend that you check out some of our resources on coping skills like acceptance: Acceptance is key - Why does acceptance feel impossible?

Thank you so much @SarahMc

Seeing someone in a similar situation gives me so much hope. I keep seeing CT’s.

Really appreciate it❤️❤️

And yes you’re right it’s terrifying. 😩

I wonder could you spend more time towards not being on this website and thinking about all things withdrawal and tapering because as you recognise, you are “spiralling”, and while we all can reassure you it will only last momentarily. To be clear, I’m not suggesting you do not use this site, we are all here for you. Simply, it may be best to use this opportunity to find ways to cope by yourself and/or with other resources too.

In tapering, balance is key. Finding ways to distract yourself helps massively.

Hang in there.

And, to start with, try journaling as in a way you are already doing it here. But, it might help you to actually journal, let the thoughts flow and out and hopefully alway. There’s something about writing by hand on paper if you are able that can be most cathartic.

Passive activities such as listening to music may help.

I sincerely hope the next message from you is on what you can do or have done to think of and do something else instead.

Good luck.

My apologies @WeLiveInHope .

I truly do need to get my mind off this and live in the moment. Sadly the physical symptoms really do terrify me.

I will definitely start journaling again (haven’t done that lately). Will try and not spiral and just keep my mindset positive. I need to start reading again.

Lately I’d been so down it felt like nothing unrelated to my recovery mattered, but this is very unhealthy and I now see it. It’s so easy to get stuck in these patterns huh

Welcome to the forum.

Getting stuck in these patterns is very common once harmed by these drugs. They tend to cause looping, obsessive and racing thoughts as a symptom.

That said, it is worth doing what you can to try to break that pattern when it comes up.

39 minutes ago, StrugglingKid said:

My apologies @WeLiveInHope .

I truly do need to get my mind off this and live in the moment

Thank you. You’ve nothing to apologise for. I’m simply making a suggestion that I think would help you in these tough moments.

It’s all a process. Everything you feel right now, is OK. Mourning, being angry, and the fear is very real. Again, it’s all a process.

I’m going to leave you with this: you can’t control what your body will do. You can control what you do with it.

Edited Saturday at 09:21 PM2 days by WeLiveInHope

Hey guys quick question.

So I realized I ordered this scale: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00ESHDGOI?ref_=ppx_hzod_title_dt_b_fed_asin_title_0_0

Which is extremely identical to the gemini.

I'll be buying the gemini and returning this but the gemini arrives nov 6 sadly. Is it okay to use this for now? I will be receiving the gemini nov 6.

1 hour ago, StrugglingKid said:

Hey guys quick question.

So I realized I ordered this scale: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00ESHDGOI?ref_=ppx_hzod_title_dt_b_fed_asin_title_0_0

Which is extremely identical to the gemini.

I'll be buying the gemini and returning this but the gemini arrives nov 6 sadly. Is it okay to use this for now? I will be receiving the gemini nov 6.

Hey @StrugglingKid that looks like the right scale to me.

Keep communicating here, asking questions. You will stabilize, just give your body time to catch up. Unfortunately your experience is not unique. Be kind to yourself and make an environment for healing, as stress free as possible. ♥️🙏

@LostinCanada Unfortunately its NOT the AWS gemini scale brand :(

I am doing what @Chippy suggested "You can if you want check calibration each time. Then tar the scales so they read zero as I said above. I would just use the weights that come with your scales."

I'm weighing and measuring today and the target is 0.068g = 5mg but sometimes it is 0.069g or 0.067g depending on where the pill is located and where the weights are located. I try to put the pill in the middle and the weights to the side.

But for some reason when when calibrating them (it says pass) for reassuring myself I test the two invidual 10g weights to see if they're 10g the calibration is being off it's odd. Like it'll show up at 10.012 idk if its not calibrating properly?

Do u suggest I use the sample tray thing?

Edited Sunday at 02:11 AM2 days by StrugglingKid

Once again sorry for all the questions I just wanna get this right once so it becomes a habit.

31 minutes ago, StrugglingKid said:

@ Unfortunately its NOT the AWS gemini scale brand :(

I am sure they are the same scale with just different branding…in fact the one you have gets better reviews.

33 minutes ago, StrugglingKid said:

put the pill in the middle and the weights to the side.

I never use the weights….only to calibrate not to tare. Follow the instructions,calibrate before use, make sure the surface is level, no air movement (no fan, no heater, no window open).

36 minutes ago, StrugglingKid said:

depending on where the pill is located

Try to stay consistent…don’t get overly concerned…just stick to the same weight for each pilol and don’t use the tray, it just adds a variable.

How many pills do u guys suggest I prepare at a time?

Now I'm thinking 7 may be too much due to degredation chances?

Last question tonight guys.

Will it affect me if the pills are 0.067-0.069g? I've been keeping them at 0.068 but ofc the scale if u check over and over it seems to display diff numbers.

I've been double checking tho with a cheaper amazon scale.

Also it seems my sound senstivity is getting worse, not fun.. it’s like a weird popping fullness in my ears and the ears like click when I swallow. Hoping this one is also temporary

Edited Sunday at 04:25 AM2 days by StrugglingKid

6 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

How many pills do u guys suggest I prepare at a time?

Now I'm thinking 7 may be too much due to degredation chances?

As you are concerned by this process. Just do one pill each day. Dont over complicate it. However I think doing a weeks worth is fine so long as you store them in a sealed container.

6 hours ago, StrugglingKid said:

Will it affect me if the pills are 0.067-0.069g? I've been keeping them at 0.068 but ofc the scale if u check over and over it seems to display diff numbers.

I've been double checking tho with a cheaper amazon scale.

Try not to over think this. I found the weight trick I told you makes the scales less flighty, you can do this if you think it helps. Try to just do the same thing each night, accept the first reading that is shown and move on. You can really go down a rabbit hole with this stuff, there is only so much you can do. Try not to over think this.

More consistency is better, but also using any consistent method and tapering slowly at a pace your body can manage is already far better than what you were doing before. It's important to keep that in mind.

We all worry about accuracy when we first try and change our method of tapering. The key, as had been mentioned is consistency.

If it helps to know, for multiple reasons it seems often drugs have some degree of variability of active ingredient from tablet to tablet to batch to batch. Hence, some degree of variability in your dose should not do harm as long as you are consistent.

If it’s not been mentioned, when changing to a different method of tapering eg cutting from liquid, it’s best to hold the dose on the new method before considering a reduction.