@Mamgu Hi, yeah I know what you mean about symptoms, always something going on. So sorry your dog is not well, that must be very worrying and stressful and stress impacts withdrawal, certainly does for me. You are working through the lowest doses now and they are the hardest to get through. From what I've read here it's common for symptoms to persist for so long, old symptoms returning, new ones cropping up. The ones you describe seem common too. It's been a long road for us both for sure but you're doing really well reducing to such a low dose from 20mg. Yes, spring is around the corner, hopefully the lighter nights and nicer weather will make your symptoms more bearable.🤗I can see you have replied to my thread, I'll pop over there and will probably reply again. Best wishes to you and your pet.x

@Mamgu Rage is one of my main symptoms. I try to keep away from people when I feel it but sometimes it comes out, usually whilst I'm driving!

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

@Mamgu Rage is one of my main symptoms. I try to keep away from people when I feel it but sometimes it comes out, usually whilst I'm driving!

 

It's an odd one, really not who I am but try as I might to supress it, it comes out!  The last time was in front of my partner, he's never seen that before so I think he was pretty shocked.  Keeping way from people is a good idea!


Earlier today I had a tooth extracted and it's totally thrown my squeezies into overdrive.  The procedure itself wasn't too bad, as far as these things go, but I'd worked myself up before going then afterwards I tried to do some work but had to leave a team call and go and lie down for an hour or so (thankfully I work from home).  I was shivering and couldn't keep my eyes open.  I've heard others say the anaesthetic can make their WD symptoms worse and perhaps that hasn't helped me today.  I had a tooth extracted a year or so ago and that was OK, nothing like this time.  I took some arnica homeopathy and painkillers so the extraction site itself is alright considering.  It's just the squeezies that are hammering me.  I suspect the £275 dentist bill also put me into shock 😆

 

So far this year is being very trying....is it too early to say roll on 2027 🤣

I've been chipping away again this month, a few small drops and so far so good.  We went for a 'short stroll' on Saturday and ended up walking much further than we anticipated, I think it was over 5.5 miles in the end.  The last mile was hell, the withdrawal symptoms kicked in and it was very difficult to keep going, huge episodes of head pressure, I felt as though I was walking through treacle and my hips were very painful.  I was quite impressed at how quickly it all went away though, literally the next day the squeezies had gone.  It's consistent with how things have been recently, when the symptoms arrive they hit hard but dissipate much more quickly than in the earlier years. Odd!

 

 

 

 

glad to hear you have been managing to go a few drops further.

you are not too far away from the finish line and have gone a long way.

I believe in you.

Oh no, I messed up my dose today, I realised I'd taken 0.164mg instead of 0.144mg - eek!  I'm now doubting I've been taking accurate doses for a few days but no way of knowing for sure.

 

Hoping it won't have a huge impact, time will tell.  There's nothing I can do about it now except ensure I pay better attention in the future.

 

What a fool!

1 hour ago, Mamgu said:

Oh no, I messed up my dose today, I realised I'd taken 0.164mg instead of 0.144mg - eek!  I'm now doubting I've been taking accurate doses for a few days but no way of knowing for sure.

 

Hoping it won't have a huge impact, time will tell.  There's nothing I can do about it now except ensure I pay better attention in the future.

 

What a fool!

Human error, it happens @Mamgu for me personally it happened more than once in much larger doses and the sky didn't fall.

It's not a big deal, especially since it's a relatively small gap, it shouldn't cause a riot.

Just pay attention in the future and be gentle with yourself, we all make mistakes and this is not a fatal one.

5 hours ago, Mamgu said:

Oh no, I messed up my dose today, I realised I'd taken 0.164mg instead of 0.144mg - eek!  I'm now doubting I've been taking accurate doses for a few days but no way of knowing for sure.

 

Hoping it won't have a huge impact, time will tell.  There's nothing I can do about it now except ensure I pay better attention in the future.

 

What a fool!

Many of us have done this @Mamgu, including myself. You've put a lot of work into this and if it was me I would go back to 0.144 mg. Hopefully you'll be ok but if symptoms should worsen I would try going back to my previous dose of 0.148 mg to see if that level things out. Try not to worry it may work out ok. x

7 hours ago, Mamgu said:

Oh no, I messed up my dose today, I realised I'd taken 0.164mg instead of 0.144mg - eek!  I'm now doubting I've been taking accurate doses for a few days but no way of knowing for sure.

 

Hoping it won't have a huge impact, time will tell.  There's nothing I can do about it now except ensure I pay better attention in the future.

 

What a fool!

So common. Dont beat yourself up! Just go back to taking what you should be taking and hold for a bit to settle down. These things happen. Hope it’s not too upsetting. 

Thanks @Fullhealing, @Sonia2 and @Chippy

 

It's comforting to hear your comments ❤️

 

I'll pick up at 0.144mg and see how it goes.  I can always adjust up if necessary but finger's crossed it'll be fine

xx

LONG RAMBLING POST ALERT!! More for my therapy and to help me find some perspective 🙂

Things haven't been so great lately. From a withdrawal perspective things are going along as I expect, no surprises at that front and I'm not overly worried about it. What I'm concerned about is I seem to be entering a phase of shutting down and that is what put me on Citalopram in the first place, I guess I don't have enough in my system to prevent the overactive anxiety response? Life has been a little stressful so I can see why I might be in this place and I feel a vicious cycle is setting in.

The year so far has been peppered with sad news of people I know passing away before their time, loved ones becoming very ill and being hospitalised, my dog becoming ill though thankfully he's settled down, my job (and therefore my security) has been tedious and I work in a negative and at times nasty team. I live on my own though I have a partner who visits regularly, he's not able to visit as often as he used to because his mother and brother need caring for. I was sort of hoping that we would eventually live together but it's not looking likely.

Then, a week ago while walking my dog in a woodland nature reserve I tripped and winded myself. It was so scary, but I'd winded myself before when I was a child so sort of knew how to deal with it. But, when I tried to stand up I was in intense pain and have been since. I had a full on panic attack on the way home. The doctor sent me to A&E to check I hadn't ruptured my liver or spleen. After a bit of prodding of my stomach they thought I was OK. I think I probably quite badly damaged my diaphragm as the pain is excruciating and I haven't been able to lie down since, I've been sleeping propped up in bed. Not really conducive to a good night's sleep!

So, all that is on my mind in the context of lowering Citalopram. On the positive side, a job was advertised at work that appealed to me, I applied was interviewed and offered the role.....with a promotion and payrise to boot! But guess what, I haven't even started the role and I'm worried about my ability to do it then I catastrophise and engage with the imposter syndrome. I'm trying to quell those thoughts. I'm trying to quell the thoughts about being on my own and having to do life without support. I'm trying to quell the thoughts of reaching my 60th birthday in a couple of weeks, 'jokingly' saying things like "at least I got to 60, my genetics and lifestyle choices might have dictated otherwise".

I suppose I'm worried about a lot of things that aren't in my control, and some things that are in my control. I've been here so many times before but always had the Citalopram to keep my brain from shutting down. That said, I don't want to up my dose AT ALL!!! I'm committed to getting off but I suspect I'm thinking myself into a negative and fearful head space.

So, what next? I'd already decided to hold at 0.14mg for a little while, my sons are visiting me for my actual birthday and we've planned a nice day in Oxford visiting the botanic gardens and going somewhere for a meal. I wanted to have little or no withdrawal symptoms for that. I also don't want to start a new job with a new manager and having to take time off because of stress/withdrawal.

I think I need to revisit anxiety coping strategies to help me stop catastrophising. I'm aware I need to extend my social network because my current situation isn't healthy, but I'm too fearful to connect with people - I feel such an idiot!

18 hours ago, Mamgu said:

What I'm concerned about is I seem to be entering a phase of shutting down and that is what put me on Citalopram in the first place, I guess I don't have enough in my system to prevent the overactive anxiety response? Life has been a little stressful so I can see why I might be in this place and I feel a vicious cycle is setting in.

Thanks for update, good to hear from you.

I would be skeptical as to this being the case. You have been on Citalopram for a number of years, so I would imagine you gained quite a bit of tolerance to any emotional numbing that may have been beneficial to you at the time. There is no eveidence that SSRIs help people more than placebo.

It is possible you are experiencing some WD symptoms from your tapering? Have a read of this: Being a human, and dealing with emotions in WD

18 hours ago, Mamgu said:

I think I need to revisit anxiety coping strategies to help me stop catastrophising. I'm aware I need to extend my social network because my current situation isn't healthy, but I'm too fearful to connect with people - I feel such an idiot!

I think this is a good idea. Building up coping skills in life, is certainly the way forward. And you are most certainly not an idiot!

Stress can be overwhelming when not in WD, but it can actually make WD symptoms worse, so I always suggest reducing this as much as you can when tapering/recovering from WD. But there are lots of things we can't avoid!

Congratulations on getting to such a low dose. I would keep going with the taper right down to 0.01mg or even lower! Often jumping off too soon can leave to WD. Better to just step off. 😀

Chippy

9 hours ago, Chippy said:

It is possible you are experiencing some WD symptoms from your tapering? Have a read of this: Being a human, and dealing with emotions in WD

Thanks Chippy, that is just what I needed right now, some reassurance that this is 'normal', however we describe normal in the wonderful world of withdrawal 😄

I'm thinking it wouldn't harm to get a top up of counselling, I'll look into that I think.

9 hours ago, Chippy said:

Congratulations on getting to such a low dose. I would keep going with the taper right down to 0.01mg or even lower! Often jumping off too soon can leave to WD. Better to just step off. 😀

Thanks, can't say it's being easy but I'm pleased with my progress. I've no plans to even consider jumping off until I'm well beyond 0.0something. It's clear to me that my withdrawal symptoms are still intense enough to let me know every drop has an impact.

May I ask, in your linked post you mention 'floating' I read Claire Weeks book and she mentions floating but I struggle with visualising what that is; so can I ask what that means to you? Maybe I could move that question over to the specific thread, if you think it would be better there?

3 minutes ago, Mamgu said:

Thanks Chippy, that is just what I needed right now, some reassurance that this is 'normal', however we describe normal in the wonderful world of withdrawal 😄

Pleasure.

3 minutes ago, Mamgu said:

I'm thinking it wouldn't harm to get a top up of counselling, I'll look into that I think.

No I agree. Anything non drug is always worth a try. It’s a positive move for sure.

4 minutes ago, Mamgu said:

Thanks, can't say it's being easy but I'm pleased with my progress. I've no plans to even consider jumping off until I'm well beyond 0.0something. It's clear to me that my withdrawal symptoms are still intense enough to let me know every drop has an impact.

Good to hear. Where’s the rush right?!

5 minutes ago, Mamgu said:

May I ask, in your linked post you mention 'floating' I read Claire Weeks book and she mentions floating but I struggle with visualising what that is; so can I ask what that means to you? Maybe I could move that question over to the specific thread, if you think it would be better there?

I think for me it’s not resisting. I kind of imagine my symptoms literally under me or at least happening but without interacting with how I feel. Disconnecting with them, so they have less effect. Not an easy thing to do, it definitely ties in with radical acceptance. Once you can accept you can float I think. Brings a sense of peace I find.

35 minutes ago, Chippy said:

I think for me it’s not resisting. I kind of imagine my symptoms literally under me or at least happening but without interacting with how I feel. Disconnecting with them, so they have less effect. Not an easy thing to do, it definitely ties in with radical acceptance. Once you can accept you can float I think. Brings a sense of peace I find.

That makes perfect sense, thanks for your explanation. I'll see if I can adopt that too :-)

6 minutes ago, Mamgu said:

That makes perfect sense, thanks for your explanation. I'll see if I can adopt that too :-)

I think the bonus prize with this, is it mitigates the second fear. I think this helps immeasurably.

I ended up seeing a physiotherapist because I was in so much pain after falling over, she thought I'd either broken or bruised some ribs. I had some good advice on how to manage things and was reassured about making a good recovery.

The whole episode has significantly worsened my withdrawal symptoms, to the point I wasn't sure I'd get through. I haven't been able to walk and was becoming fearful of leaving the house. I was close to completely shutting down. Then, earlier today it all started to lift and my mood is fine. Honestly I'll never understand this! I'm aware I'll still have ups and downs but am just so thankful that the windows are opening.

8 hours ago, Mamgu said:

ended up seeing a physiotherapist because I was in so much pain after falling over, she thought I'd either broken or bruised some ribs. I had some good advice on how to manage things and was reassured about making a good recovery.

Glad you got checked. I honestly think they do the best work in the medical system. Real non drug help. My wife’s benefited so much recently from seeing one.

8 hours ago, Mamgu said:

The whole episode has significantly worsened my withdrawal symptoms, to the point I wasn't sure I'd get through. I haven't been able to walk and was becoming fearful of leaving the house. I was close to completely shutting down. Then, earlier today it all started to lift and my mood is fine. Honestly I'll never understand this! I'm aware I'll still have ups and downs but am just so thankful that the windows are opening.

Glad things have eased for you. Time is often what’s required to settle things down. Can be scary whilst in a wave and many things can trigger it. I’m really pleased to see your window show up. Great news. 😀

The window slammed shut far too quickly! I'm feeling really rough and am struggling at the moment. I can't help but wonder if I am experiencing a double whammy of severe withdrawal compounded with my old anxiety response. Currently this is what I'm experiencing

Definitely withdrawal:

Head pressure

Tinnitus - usually it seems to be at the back of my skull but recently I've added in a higher pitch ringing deep in my left ear. Both pitches at the same time too. That's new, never had that before.

Difficulty walking - my perception is challenged with every step, it feels as though I don't have full control of my movement and I veer towards the left

Heavy legs - like I'm walking in waist-deep water

After a couple of hours work my head feels as though it's melting, a kind of squishy feeling and my cognitive function plummets. I take a break and do some yoga nidra or meditation which helps a bit

It feels as though the ends of my nerves are broken, I feel slightly numb physically everywhere. Like when the anaesthesia is wearing off from having dental work done, the feeling is returning but there's still some numbness. I have this all over my body, all the time.

Fatigue

Tingling on various parts of my body, like there's heavy boot-wearing ants crawling over me

Nausea

Patches of severe pain on my scalp, as though I've been punched.

Probable general anxiety response:

Shutting down and disinterest in the world

Difficulty walking, I want a prop to make me feel safe, I'll hold onto handrails or use a walking pole for support

Wanting to sleep all the time

Fear of being outside away from the house.

Catastrophising and unhelpful thoughts about health anxiety, In my head I always seem to end up losing my job, then my home because I can't pay the rent so my dog and I are living on the streets. I do laugh at the point where I worry about how I'd make my citalopram solution if I'm homeless!

Feeling like I'm failing at everything - I feel as though I'm failing at getting off this drug for example. Though I've made good progress and appreciate that, yet I emotionally connect with the fact I'm stalling at the moment. It's the same with weight loss, I've gradually lost 4 stone over the last year and whilst that's great, I've still got more stones to go and I've stalled recently. So I'm failing at that too. Again, stupid, I should celebrate the progress to date, be kind to myself and just pick it up again when I feel better.

I appreciate the second list could well be in the first but they are consistent with how I could be before I ever touched an antidepressant. The first list is what I've experienced since withdrawal.

I also appreciate I'm probably still processing falling over and injuring my ribs, I'm still in a lot of pain and can't lay down to sleep. The physio suggested taking paracetamol as a course for a week or so, rather than every now and then. I've been doing that and it helps with the pain but I wonder if it's impacting the withdrawal symptoms. I rarely take painkillers but when I have in the past, I don't recall it affecting withdrawal symptoms. Maybe taking them all the time though is having an affect.

I've been tapering for years and have experienced many ups and downs but always had a general trajectory towards zero. Though I've regularly had to re-write my tapering schedule because I need to take longer holds than I'd appreciated/hoped for. I just don't recall being this deep in and for so long. The only time I was near this was when I tapered according to GPs instructions (20mg to zero in a couple of months). I just can't see a way out and fear there isn't and I'll end up back on the full dose. And that's a depressing thought!

This is all compounded with a sudden physical aging over the last few months. The aging signs are coming thick and fast. In a couple of days I'll reach my 60th birthday and although I'm grateful to reach that age (my mum and brother didn't get anywhere near that age) it's the sudden onslaught of physical aging that's bothering me. And not being able to do the exercises I should be doing at my age because withdrawal symptoms are triggered.

Basically I'm living in fear of many things, some of those are general things folks deal with all the time and others are the extra special gifts of withdrawal.

I think writing all this out has helped sort out some of the unhelpful thinking. I wasn't going to post it but now I've re-read it I think I will because it may help my future self if things get this tough again.

I would say just hold and remember it's temporary, I wouldn't be surprised if your ribs being injured cause extra stress on your body.

It's okay for things to get worse, and for you to get worse with things that's outside your control, we shouldn't stick to a schedule with tapering as it's all unpredictable and changing all the time.

I would say just remember it's a down, keep practicing acceptance/meditation or any other coping thingy that can help you out.

1 hour ago, Mamgu said:

Basically I'm living in fear of many things

You don't have to believe the fear and emotions, even if they do take over, you can remember in your spirit it's just the ups and downs of life, the fear just makes you deal with the symptoms in a less optimal space and it's best not to believe it and take it into the soul.

hopefully the comment is helpful in one way or another (It's late and about to go to sleep haha, didn't want to let this be left alone for a bit).

11 hours ago, Mamgu said:

The window slammed shut far too quickly!

Im sorry to read @Mamgu , windows and waves are real, especially whilst trying to stablise.

11 hours ago, Mamgu said:

I appreciate the second list could well be in the first but they are consistent with how I could be before I ever touched an antidepressant. The first list is what I've experienced since withdrawal.

I think of course the second list could be neuro emotions, and of course it could be an anxiety response, but this is perfectly natural don't forget, you are going through a lot at the moment, feeling a need to protect youself by staying home and adding in additional support whilst walking and wanting to sleep, seems reasonable particularly after having a fall like that. Gonna take some time to build up some confidence back again.

I think it is possible to work on all this using the coping skills as discussed, accept some of it is WD related, and try to not add second fear by fighting it all. It is ok to feel how you feel. Be kind to yourself. If you can get to the point where you accept how you feel, you can be sure you are not causing any further anxiety yourself by resisiting or fearing. Don't forget we experience WD through the eyes of own minds, so those Neuro Emotions can feel very real to us sometimes!

11 hours ago, Mamgu said:

I also appreciate I'm probably still processing falling over and injuring my ribs, I'm still in a lot of pain and can't lay down to sleep. The physio suggested taking paracetamol as a course for a week or so, rather than every now and then. I've been doing that and it helps with the pain but I wonder if it's impacting the withdrawal symptoms. I rarely take painkillers but when I have in the past, I don't recall it affecting withdrawal symptoms. Maybe taking them all the time though is having an affect.

It is possible, hard I know when you are in pain. I hurt my back pretty badly this week, I have managed to avoid touching anything to help with the pain, and slowly things are imporving, not easy. I think it is reasonable you have taken something for the pain, especially as you were finding it affecting your sleep. If you think it is causing issues, maybe pull back and take as needed again.

11 hours ago, Mamgu said:

I've been tapering for years and have experienced many ups and downs but always had a general trajectory towards zero. Though I've regularly had to re-write my tapering schedule because I need to take longer holds than I'd appreciated/hoped for. I just don't recall being this deep in and for so long. The only time I was near this was when I tapered according to GPs instructions (20mg to zero in a couple of months). I just can't see a way out and fear there isn't and I'll end up back on the full dose. And that's a depressing thought!

You have been doing great! I can see your last few drops were really nice and steady, good work, many rush at this point in the taper and come off too quickly. Listening to your body is best, hard to set a plan and stick to it. I would a call any plan a guide.

12 hours ago, Mamgu said:

This is all compounded with a sudden physical aging over the last few months. The aging signs are coming thick and fast. In a couple of days I'll reach my 60th birthday and although I'm grateful to reach that age (my mum and brother didn't get anywhere near that age) it's the sudden onslaught of physical aging that's bothering me. And not being able to do the exercises I should be doing at my age because withdrawal symptoms are triggered.

I think we all have this fear, I am feeling this a bit even at my age, hobbling round the house with a stick at home all day on my own this last few days. I was thinking, Ive worked hard over the years, is this what retirement would look like! Is that what we are all aiming for! 😁

Acceptance can help here too I think, learning to almost not care what happens next and trust you will be able to cope with natural signs of aging as they come up. Again stops the second fear and anxious responses. If they come up anyway, may be WD related, just notice them, don't be angry they are there, just push it to one side and accept it.

12 hours ago, Mamgu said:

Basically I'm living in fear of many things, some of those are general things folks deal with all the time and others are the extra special gifts of withdrawal.

I think writing all this out has helped sort out some of the unhelpful thinking. I wasn't going to post it but now I've re-read it I think I will because it may help my future self if things get this tough again.

I think you are doing great, in what has been a tough time for you. Id keep holding here and let all this settle down. You have had so much to cope with in a short space of time. Let the dust settle and work on those coping skills. Youll be drug free and happy again before you know it and enjoying your 60s as you should be!

@Mamgu Hi Mamgu, I'm sorry to hear about your recent struggles, your symptoms sound really heavy.

Your symptoms can be related to withdrawal and indeed the shock following your fall and injuries, and of course you recently had a dose drop which doesn't help. However, if you are unduly worried about your newest symptoms you could always get checked again by ringing 111 or by your GP for peace of mind.

I know how the slightest changes can affect withdrawal, I myself am struggling reducing anadin extra, this has amplified my symptoms for sure and created new symptoms.

I hope things ease for you soon but rib injuries can take several weeks to heal and it's understandable how it could affect your withdrawal.

Best wishes xxx

Thanks @Lighty @Chippy and @Sonia2 I really appreciate you taking the time to help 😊 I've been trying to type a response for a couple of days but was feeling too overwhelmed. Anyway, things are settling down a bit now and my brain in engaging with life a bit more 😄

I've been actively practicing acceptance and just living with the symptoms rather than focussing on them and thereby feeding them. That second fear has gone and my equilibrium is returning.

I have absolutely zero plans to commence the taper in the near future, there's not a chance that's going to happen until I'm waaaaay past all this. I've been doing this long enough to know I'm already sensitive to tapering and can't even do the recommended 10%/month or even the Brass Monkey approach. The 'squeezies' hit too hard and this episode is the worse I've ever experienced.

Anyway, pleased to report I'm feeling better, still not great but better.

Best wishes to you all

x

@Mamgu I'm glad I have helped you, and you have dealt with your symptoms well.

It's okay to pause your taper, you can see how I am pausing for a long time as I struggle a lot from 1% cuts, your goal should be to enjoy life first, eventually you will be off the drug, but it should be secondary to enjoying life.

@Mamgu I'm so pleased you're feeling better and things are settling down, holding sounds like a good idea.

Take care xx