15 hours ago, Nickie Evans said:

Thank you, I did ask if gp writes the specific brand on the prescription, can they order it then, but both pharmacies said no they can't order specifically by generic brand.

Are most people ok when generic ssri brands are changed? Friends husband has different brands and has never had an issue.

Many people are, but some of us are sensitive, particularly when already harmed.

If you can't avoid it, you can't avoid it- best not to worry too much. Normally the same pharmacy would just be getting the same drugs each time.

Morning @Nickie Evans checking in you with to see how you are?

I'm seriously concerned about the fast taper off mirtazapine that the psychiatrist has told me to follow. 15mg for just over 4 weeks, he told me to halve the dose for 4 days and then stop and start the Paroxatine. Even NICE and the Royal Psychology website and Cambridge Psychology website(all reputable sites)state this is far to fast of a taper and is almost certain to cause sudden discontinuation syndrome (which I'm already suffering due to sudden Seroxat withdrawal)

10 minutes ago, Luke said:

Many people are, but some of us are sensitive, particularly when already harmed.

If you can't avoid it, you can't avoid it- best not to worry too much. Normally the same pharmacy would just be getting the same drugs each time.

I'm seriously concerned about the fast taper off mirtazapine that the psychiatrist has told me to follow. 15mg for just over 4 weeks, he told me to halve the dose for 4 days and then stop and start the Paroxatine. Even NICE and the Royal Psychology website and Cambridge Psychology website(all reputable sites)state this is far to fast of a taper and is almost certain to cause sudden discontinuation syndrome (which I'm already suffering due to sudden Seroxat withdrawal)

40 minutes ago, Nickie Evans said:

I'm seriously concerned about the fast taper off mirtazapine that the psychiatrist has told me to follow. 15mg for just over 4 weeks, he told me to halve the dose for 4 days and then stop and start the Paroxatine. Even NICE and the Royal Psychology website and Cambridge Psychology website(all reputable sites)state this is far to fast of a taper and is almost certain to cause sudden discontinuation syndrome (which I'm already suffering due to sudden Seroxat withdrawal)

I understand that. His arguement is that switching drugs will replace the Mirt, but this isn't the case I am afriad, these people honestly have so little knoweldge of these drugs. They literally trial and error, swap drugs around, taking people off without a taper and think nothing of it. When things get worse they say your mental health is deteriorating.

I'll be really honest here. My broad feelings are that if you get some WD from stopping Mirt (that a high dose of Paroxetine won't stop!), I think your brain will adapt to that in the coming weeks and months as you were on it such a short time.

I think your brain may well like the low dose of Paroxetine as that is what it is missing the most. I think 1mg is the dose it will respond to best.

I am a little relieved you won't be on Mirt any more if I am brutally honest. It is an awful drug, and getting off it as soon as possible is good in the long term berfore you gain more depedancy on it and then are in a difficult bind, trying to taper two drugs.

So personally getting off Mirt quickly and having a 1mg RI of Paroxetine into your system and holding there, I think is the best thing you can do now.

Either way you got this, many people have recovered from poly drugging and stablised, you are not alone or unusual. Try to keep calm and focus on the day, don't worry about how you may or may not feel, just one step at a time. We are all with you.

Thank you, I've just spoken to the Dr's surgery again and explained the situation and GP has put a script up for 5 more mirtazapine, so half each night, gives me another 10 days worth. Already had 2 nights on 7.5mg as per psychiatrist instruction, should I stay on the 7.5mg (half the previous dose as already started that, or go back up and have 3 quarters a night and then down to 7.5mg after several days?

5 minutes ago, Nickie Evans said:

Thank you, I've just spoken to the Dr's surgery again and explained the situation and GP has put a script up for 5 more mirtazapine, so half each night, gives me another 10 days worth. Already had 2 nights on 7.5mg as per psychiatrist instruction, should I stay on the 7.5mg (half the previous dose as already started that, or go back up and have 3 quarters a night and then down to 7.5mg after several days?

Thats good. Stick to 7.5mg and go down from there. The lower doses are more potent and jumping doses around isn't best. If you can get to a 1/4 tablet you can keep the taper going a bit longer. When I came off Sertaline years ago, I kept shaving it down and down until I was taking crumbs, no scales or anything just wanted to do it slower than doctor had said.

@Nickie Evans we usually dont suggest jumping straight to a liquid from the tablet without a crossover, but in your situation I think you would benefit from making a liquid from your Mirt tablets and reducing that way rather than cutting. It will give you more control and would be more accurate.

If you want to do this, let me know and I will tell you what you need to do? You have your syringes coming today so nothing stopping you really.

I need to stay on 7.5mg for a few days, I'm nit feeling good at all this morning, not sure if it's the huge reduction or the fact I haven't slept at all last night.

5 minutes ago, Nickie Evans said:

I need to stay on 7.5mg for a few days, I'm nit feeling good at all this morning, not sure if it's the huge reduction or the fact I haven't slept at all last night.

Sorry to hear. Sounds like a good idea. Without scales your dose won’t be accurate. So making 7.5mg with a liquid would be better in that regard and allow you to adjust more precisely when you drop more rather than trying to cut to 1/4 and guessing lower doses or going directly to zero. Just a thought.

23 minutes ago, Nickie Evans said:

I need to stay on 7.5mg for a few days, I'm nit feeling good at all this morning, not sure if it's the huge reduction or the fact I haven't slept at all last night.

Hi Nickie,

I just wanted to message you as I have been on Seroxat since 1995 and was not given any warning about the medication discontinuing. I found out a month ago and was in a state for a week and am now trying to taper off Seroxat. I was lucky I had some extra boxes. I would suggest trying a different brand paroxetine, the GP can write the brand on your prescription and reinstate a very very small dose and increase very slowly to just enough that you can function.

I feel so sorry for you and if you need to talk I’m here.

I tried coming off Seroxat in the past many times over the years so know the withdrawal is horrendous and has to be done very very slow by 1mg a month for me.

Hi @Lar thank you for supporting Nickie.

Could I ask you make a post in the introduction section please thanks when you have a minute? Thanks ☺️

1 hour ago, Nickie Evans said:

not sure if it's the huge reduction or the fact I haven't slept at all last night.

Nickie. Just to say a big issue with Mirtazapine is sleep. So if your sleep is worse and or you are having strange night time symptoms all of a sudden this is typical of Mirtazapine wd.

How was last night?

@Chippy @LostinCanada the first night going to 7.5mg wasnt too bad, but I literally had zero sleep last night awake all night. Tried to nap just now but can't get to sleep. I've got some zopiclone so am gonna have to take 1 if it continues. Mirtazapine at 15mg and 7.5mg never helped with sleep and haven't felt mentally tired for 5 months. Mental health crisis team have spoken to the psychiatrist and just told me on the phone that hes said I must stick to the taper plan he gave (going from 15mg to 7.5mg for 4 nights and then stop and start Paroxatine) hes refused any more mirtazapine which would have enabled me to taper more slowly.

1 hour ago, Chippy said:

Hi @Lar thank you for supporting Nickie.

Could I ask you make a post in the introduction section please thanks when you have a minute? Thanks ☺️

@chippy sorry what do you mean by post in introduction section.

1 minute ago, Nickie Evans said:

@Chippy @LostinCanada the first night going to 7.5mg wasnt too bad, but I literally had zero sleep last night awake all night. Tried to nap just now but can't get to sleep. I've got some zopiclone so am gonna have to take 1 if it continues. Mirtazapine at 15mg and 7.5mg never helped with sleep and haven't felt mentally tired for 5 months. Mental health crisis team have spoken to the psychiatrist and just told me on the phone that hes said I must stick to the taper plan he gave (going from 15mg to 7.5mg for 4 nights and then stop and start Paroxatine) hes refused any more mirtazapine which would have enabled me to taper more slowly.

Yeah ok. This is the effect of the mirt reduction. It’s often delayed.

You have a couple of choices. Go back to your doctor and explain that the drop is too much and you need to come off slower. Or continue with the quick taper as planned.

What I wouldn’t do is take the Zopiclone. More psych meds are not going to help you at this stage and imo make things worse. Obviously it’s totally your choice.

The arrogance of these guys infuriates me tbh.

2 minutes ago, Nickie Evans said:

@chippy sorry what do you mean by post in introduction section.

That’s ok. Sorry this is for Lar not for you Nickie. X

My dr has prescribed 5 x 15mg tablets today, but that doesn't really help stretch the taper much further than 10 days opposed to 4 days.

48 minutes ago, Nickie Evans said:

My dr has prescribed 5 x 15mg tablets today, but that doesn't really help stretch the taper much further than 10 days opposed to 4 days.

No, but perhaps if things dont settle down in a few days you can go back and ask for more.

I would really like your dose to be accurate. Cutting pills is just not precise enough. Really you could do with scales to measure the halves and get them exact.

Please don't take the zopiclone....it is referred to as a Z-drug if you want to do research on it. I used it myself before I knew better...highly addictive...it is a hypnotic.

Your body is struggling to be stable, adding more to the mix is not good as shown by the escitalopram and mirtazapine. Keep it as clean and simple as possible.

I would not hesitate to start the reinstatement of paroxetine.

How are you today @Nickie Evans

@Chippy @LostinCanada

Hi have copy and pasted the below that I sent to a friend to save me writing it out again.

Hi Tom I'm so very sorry I haven't been in touch and answered your last message, things got so bad here. I started the Paroxatine which is what I asked the psychiatrist if I could try opposed to his suggestion of venlafaxine, the first week on Paroxatine made me even worse and suicidal 😪 1 night i made plans of how to do it, when and where, the next day the mental health crisis team were due out and I'd written on a piece of paper what thoughts I'd had the previous night (didn't want to speak it out to them as my daughter was at home) after they left i got a phone call from one of the practitioners saying they'd been told of my situation and thoughts and would I like to be a voluntary inpatient in a mental health unit to receive 24hr support and therapy, I asked would it 110% be voluntary and was assured yes, I could come and go as I pleased as long as i stayed over at the unit every night, I agreed to this as things were so bad. The following morning they called me to say they had a bed at the mental health hospital near me (lucky as it could have been anywhere in Hampshire) cut along story short, Diane and my daughter took me there at 6pm that evening, they waited in the foyer while I was taken to the ward and shown a room. Within half an hour of being there on the ward I realised this definitely wasn't the right place for me to get support and it would in fact make my mental health far worse. All patients were psychotic or had schizophrenia, many were violent and had to be restrained at times, screaming and shouting and generally a horrific environment. Staff were uncaring and ignored patients most of the time. I was scared. I told the nurse in charge I'd decided I wasn't staying but she said I had to wait for the duty psychiatrist to see me before I could leave. This didn't happen until 11pm that night, she took me to a room and asked lots of questions, went off to make a call and half an hour later came back with a member of staff and told me I'd been put under a section 5.2 and would be detained for a minimum of 72hrs, I was in complete shock as were Diane and my daughter, as the mental health crisis team has assured me I was voluntary. I said I wasn't happy and no way could I stay there but they refused to change their mind. So for Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday morning I wasnt allowed off the ward, not allowed to smoke and not allowed out of the hospital even if accompanied by staff of Diane. It was absolutely pure hell Tom, I was in a high horrific state of on boarding Paroxatine plus in this horrendous environment. I never slept all the time I was there even though they gave me larazipam and zopiclone to try and get me to sleep. On the Monday morning a meeting was held with me, the in hospital psychiatrist, a nurse and Diane and Morgan in attendance. I told the psychiatrist I couldn't understand why I'd been sectioned and he said its because in the notes he'd received from the crisis team I had left a suicide note 😠 this was totally untrue but the information had been changed from a note describing how my thoughts were 1 night onto it being a suicide note, I was horrified and explained the actual truth of the note shown to crisis team. He them apologised and said I shouldn't have been sectioned and it should have remained as a voluntary admission. He discharged me immediately and said it was so unfortunate that the time I was admitted the patients in the female ward were some of the most seriously ill patients that have been there for a long time and totally understood why I didn't want to stay. I was told to increase the Paroxatine to 10mg, given zopiclone and larazipam to take home to manage the awful on boarding I was going through (I haven't needed to take the larazipam and stopped the zopiclone 3 weeks ago now. Once I'd been on the 10mg Paroxatine for 10 days things have done a complete turn around, I'm 70% back to my normal self, its almost seemed like a miracle having suffered so badly these past 6 months. I'm discharged from the crisis team and now have fortnightly appointments with the community mental health team. Things are good now Tom, nowhere near perfect but I'm eating better, sleeping better, no palpitations, no panic attacks and no active suicidal thoughts. Sorry for such a long message but wanted to update you in full. Do hope you're doing ok x

48 minutes ago, Nickie Evans said:

@Chippy @LostinCanada

Hi have copy and pasted the below that I sent to a friend to save me writing it out again.

Hi Tom I'm so very sorry I haven't been in touch and answered your last message, things got so bad here. I started the Paroxatine which is what I asked the psychiatrist if I could try opposed to his suggestion of venlafaxine, the first week on Paroxatine made me even worse and suicidal 😪 1 night i made plans of how to do it, when and where, the next day the mental health crisis team were due out and I'd written on a piece of paper what thoughts I'd had the previous night (didn't want to speak it out to them as my daughter was at home) after they left i got a phone call from one of the practitioners saying they'd been told of my situation and thoughts and would I like to be a voluntary inpatient in a mental health unit to receive 24hr support and therapy, I asked would it 110% be voluntary and was assured yes, I could come and go as I pleased as long as i stayed over at the unit every night, I agreed to this as things were so bad. The following morning they called me to say they had a bed at the mental health hospital near me (lucky as it could have been anywhere in Hampshire) cut along story short, Diane and my daughter took me there at 6pm that evening, they waited in the foyer while I was taken to the ward and shown a room. Within half an hour of being there on the ward I realised this definitely wasn't the right place for me to get support and it would in fact make my mental health far worse. All patients were psychotic or had schizophrenia, many were violent and had to be restrained at times, screaming and shouting and generally a horrific environment. Staff were uncaring and ignored patients most of the time. I was scared. I told the nurse in charge I'd decided I wasn't staying but she said I had to wait for the duty psychiatrist to see me before I could leave. This didn't happen until 11pm that night, she took me to a room and asked lots of questions, went off to make a call and half an hour later came back with a member of staff and told me I'd been put under a section 5.2 and would be detained for a minimum of 72hrs, I was in complete shock as were Diane and my daughter, as the mental health crisis team has assured me I was voluntary. I said I wasn't happy and no way could I stay there but they refused to change their mind. So for Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday morning I wasnt allowed off the ward, not allowed to smoke and not allowed out of the hospital even if accompanied by staff of Diane. It was absolutely pure hell Tom, I was in a high horrific state of on boarding Paroxatine plus in this horrendous environment. I never slept all the time I was there even though they gave me larazipam and zopiclone to try and get me to sleep. On the Monday morning a meeting was held with me, the in hospital psychiatrist, a nurse and Diane and Morgan in attendance. I told the psychiatrist I couldn't understand why I'd been sectioned and he said its because in the notes he'd received from the crisis team I had left a suicide note 😠 this was totally untrue but the information had been changed from a note describing how my thoughts were 1 night onto it being a suicide note, I was horrified and explained the actual truth of the note shown to crisis team. He them apologised and said I shouldn't have been sectioned and it should have remained as a voluntary admission. He discharged me immediately and said it was so unfortunate that the time I was admitted the patients in the female ward were some of the most seriously ill patients that have been there for a long time and totally understood why I didn't want to stay. I was told to increase the Paroxatine to 10mg, given zopiclone and larazipam to take home to manage the awful on boarding I was going through (I haven't needed to take the larazipam and stopped the zopiclone 3 weeks ago now. Once I'd been on the 10mg Paroxatine for 10 days things have done a complete turn around, I'm 70% back to my normal self, its almost seemed like a miracle having suffered so badly these past 6 months. I'm discharged from the crisis team and now have fortnightly appointments with the community mental health team. Things are good now Tom, nowhere near perfect but I'm eating better, sleeping better, no palpitations, no panic attacks and no active suicidal thoughts. Sorry for such a long message but wanted to update you in full. Do hope you're doing ok x

@Nickie Evans im very sorry to read what you went through. What an awful traumatic thing. Our mental health systems are terrifying tbh.

I am pleased to see things have settled down for you with the help of the reinstatement of Paroxetine. What brand did you take? Was it the same one you reacted to last year?

Could you update your signature if you have the energy so we are up to speed with what you took and when?

You’ll want to sit this out at this dose now till things settle down for you some more. I’m so very pleased to hear you are doing better.

Hi @Nickie Evans truly unbelievable but not surprising. Are you still taking escitalopram? When you reinstated the paroxetine that started the SI, what dose did you start at?

I totally agree with @Chippy ...no changes. Just get stable. Once that occurs, you will be in a better place to decide how to move forward.

Thank you so much for updating us. ❤️🙏

No was only on esitalopram for just over 4 weeks and taken off it by tge mental health crisis team on April 9th, who then put me on mirtazapine but due to continuing to suffer badly from Seroxat withdrawal and Mitazapine nit even helping with sleep or appetite i was only in ut for 5 weeks. Tgen had psychiatrist appointment who wanted me on either an antipsycotic or venlafaxine, thats when I asked could I try Paroxatine again (because it makes sense as thats the only med that gives the brain what it suddenly missed and also from what you've all told me here) and he agreed., started me on 10mg but that caused my resting heart rate to go to the high 90's constantly whereas its usually 63-65, was told to go down to 5mg, then 4 weeks ago it was increased back up to 10mg and that seems to be the perfect dose. I was adamant and refused first prescription as chemist gave me thecsame brand i had back in January, so am on a different brand which I will endeavour to stick too.