8 hours ago, Bawneen said:

@Nemina thank you for your response, I needed the support.  I probably sound like a broken record but there have been very dark moments lying in the dark and the days are endless. I can now weight bear and had two walks today and I can even go out in the rain. I feel sick at the prospect of eating but have consistently made myself eat regardless. I'm so grateful I'm physically over the awful casts/boots. So I was disappointed in myself that the ground went from under me and my mind just goes on a rollercoaster of a dark thoughts. Today was not a good day, the late afternoon and evenings have been windows for about a week now. But today was not good and my anxiety morphed into full blown panic. My neighbour sat with me for about an hour which was a godsend.  I need to hear the voices of reason here and a sympathetic ear. How do you get to acceptance when you feel so overwhelmed?  I'm genuinely curious. Once again thanks 

So sorry for the hard days @Bawneen please remember that our mind is against us during wd therefore very difficult to control, don't blame yourself, it happens to us all, none of this brutal process is your fault.

Also remember that you are much stronger than you feel and this suffering has an end.

Hang in there, you are coping with great bravery! give yourself grace, you deserve it.

Edited April 10Apr 10 by Fullhealing

7 hours ago, gardengirl2 said:

Hi sweet @Bawneen. One thing that helped make long, dark, lonely nights easier was going out to the couch to sleep, especially if you have a negative association with the bed right now. Something about being in a different setting does something to the mind. Maybe give it a try.

xxoo Jamie

@gardengirl2 thanks so much.  Unfortunately my flat is tiny and I only have a two seater sofa, but it makes total sense, last night it was a wee bit better, no major sweating just mild 🥰

3 hours ago, Chippy said:

@Bawneen

 

Im sorry to hear you have had such a hard few days. I am very pleased you are up and about and able to bare weight now. This is excellent news and you should celebrate this win! 🙂 

 

Sleep is hard. Acceptance is basically everything, in coping with it. You are currently suffering a physiological interuption to your sleep. This is normal and it isn't your fault. It is really important to first recognise this. If you can do that, you can understand there is nothing you can do to make it better. I know that sounds crazy right! But that there is acceptance. Just letting go. What this does, is firstly remove the chance of 'second fear' kicking and making it all worse. Secondly, it makes you more relaxed and likley to sleep. And finally, and most importantly, it takes away the resistance. This is where the suffering lies. If we can accept, and trust our bodies, the suffering reduces enormously. 

 

Remember your body knows how to sleep. You can't control it. It is about learning to simply, not care anymore. Acceptance is a constant daily maintained practice, not a end goal or destination. Chippy xxx

@Chippy this makes total sense but - bear with me - say for example you're in a doom and gloom spiral - what type of self-talk would you employ to accept what is happening or is it that the acceptance comes first -this is a genuine question, when I've been there in the dark the secondary fear is tough to tame. A life time of anxiety has not imbued me with trust, but I'm working on it. 🥰

14 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

@Chippy this makes total sense but - bear with me - say for example you're in a doom and gloom spiral - what type of self-talk would you employ to accept what is happening or is it that the acceptance comes first -this is a genuine question, when I've been there in the dark the secondary fear is tough to tame. A life time of anxiety has not imbued me with trust, but I'm working on it. 🥰

It’s not an easy task. When you feel the secondary fear, you actually have to accept that too! Just say to yourself, out loud if needed, ‘this is not me, this is withdrawal, I trust my body will sleep as much as it needs to function, and I’ll cope with the rest’ also remind yourself this is temporary, not permanent and, as hard as it is sometimes, this will pass and it will get  better. 

Dear @Bawneen, chippy has given you very good advice. That’s how I do it too, I say it loud. I also pray, I say to God, „I accept this, you are here, I trust you…“ things like that. I picture myself physically lying in the big hand of God,  her/his looking at me with love. 
Struggling against the nightly anxiety has given me so much pain. 
 

A very good teacher in this field is Sam Miler, you can find her on YouTube. „Allowing“ is her version of acceptance. 

Just now, Nemina said:

Dear @Bawneen, chippy has given you very good advice. That’s how I do it too, I say it loud. I also pray, I say to God, „I accept this, you are here, I trust you…“ things like that. I picture myself physically lying in the big hand of God,  her/his looking at me with love. 
Struggling against the nightly anxiety has given me so much pain. 
 

A very good teacher in this field is Sam Miler, you can find her on YouTube. „Allowing“ is her version of acceptance. 

@NeminaI came across her and listened to a few but I found her hard-hitting. Too tough for me.  I call to God every day, and anxiety is so hard to deal with. 🥰

Hi @Bawneen, I used to struggle with sleep anxiety and insomnia as well about 2 years ago.

 

As Chippy mentioned, it is about acceptance and allowance. I realized I was trying to force myself to sleep and that I had this narrative surrounding the loss of sleep that wasn't helping me. This is a form of resistance. I had to learn to let go of this resistance which meant I had to stop engaging with the thoughts about having no sleep and the effects it would have on me. So I started to accept that, right now, I can't fall asleep and that's ok. I acknowledge that this sucks but I also remind myself that sleep will return. When our bodies and minds are tired, we will fall asleep eventually. It is just a temporary thing.

 

Wishing you better days and nights! ❤️

5 minutes ago, Niels91 said:

Hi @Bawneen, I used to struggle with sleep anxiety and insomnia as well about 2 years ago.

 

As Chippy mentioned, it is about acceptance and allowance. I realized I was trying to force myself to sleep and that I had this narrative surrounding the loss of sleep that wasn't helping me. This is a form of resistance. I had to learn to let go of this resistance which meant I had to stop engaging with the thoughts about having no sleep and the effects it would have on me. So I started to accept that, right now, I can't fall asleep and that's ok. I acknowledge that this sucks but I also remind myself that sleep will return. When our bodies and minds are tired, we will fall asleep eventually. It is just a temporary thing.

 

Wishing you better days and nights! ❤️

@Neils91  I don't mind the lack of sleep - it's the terror that comes with it and the sweating.  I'm emotionally drained - spend my days in panic mode.  It's just awful and I regret taking this journey so much now, A year and a half of tapering the right way, then surgery and now this, 24/7 emotional pain, I can't take much more,

43 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

@Neils91  I don't mind the lack of sleep - it's the terror that comes with it and the sweating.  I'm emotionally drained - spend my days in panic mode.  It's just awful and I regret taking this journey so much now, A year and a half of tapering the right way, then surgery and now this, 24/7 emotional pain, I can't take much more,

 

I'm sorry about that @Bawneen, it is so incredibly hard dealing with everything that WD throws at us, I can relate to you.

 

Try to apply the principles of acceptance and allowance as best as you can. It does not need to be perfect. As Chippy said:

 

23 hours ago, Chippy said:

It’s not an easy task. When you feel the secondary fear, you actually have to accept that too! Just say to yourself, out loud if needed, ‘this is not me, this is withdrawal, I trust my body will sleep as much as it needs to function, and I’ll cope with the rest’ also remind yourself this is temporary, not permanent and, as hard as it is sometimes, this will pass and it will get  better. 

 

Please remember that this situation will not last and that you will get better and better as time passes.

 

Sending you lots of love. ❤️

Edited April 11Apr 11 by Niels91

8 hours ago, Niels91 said:

 

I'm sorry about that @Bawneen, it is so incredibly hard dealing with everything that WD throws at us, I can relate to you.

 

Try to apply the principles of acceptance and allowance as best as you can. It does not need to be perfect. As Chippy said:

 

 

Please remember that this situation will not last and that you will get better and better as time passes.

 

Sending you lots of love. ❤️

@Chippy @Luke @Catbird @gardengirl2 @Nemina  Hi when I was coming down on the taper I made 10% cuts and when I hit 0.20 mg I decided to stay (upcoming surgery) and I'm still at that level since last Sept.  Can I up dose by tiny increments because I'm really suffering.  Maybe by 1% tiny increments until I get some type of stability?  It's the same drug.   

9 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

@Chippy @Luke @Catbird @gardengirl2 @Nemina  Hi when I was coming down on the taper I made 10% cuts and when I hit 0.20 mg I decided to stay (upcoming surgery) and I'm still at that level since last Sept.  Can I up dose by tiny increments because I'm really suffering.  Maybe by 1% tiny increments until I get some type of stability?  It's the same drug.   

I mean you didn't get destabilized due to drug change that much, more by the surgery and also the benzo I believe. Theoretically nothing stops you from updosing but I don't think it's the best thing to do, but it's your choice.

Quite often when we are truly suffering we want a way out ,I can understand your wanting to increase.  Its a minefield as the suffering could be from previous cuts catching up with you or the surgery just please proceed with caution . I truly hope you find some peace soon 

I’m so sorry for your suffering! I hope it will get easier for you soon.
How did your symptoms develop between September and the surgery?

it would probably make sense to try to differentiate if the current problem came from reducing the dose or if your system is upset from all the stress around the surgery. September is quite long ago. I think reinstatement makes more sense when the cut is not so long ago and when the problems come from too big a cut. 
what were your reactions to the Xanax?

 

thinking of you! 

 

1 hour ago, Nemina said:

I’m so sorry for your suffering! I hope it will get easier for you soon.
How did your symptoms develop between September and the surgery?

it would probably make sense to try to differentiate if the current problem came from reducing the dose or if your system is upset from all the stress around the surgery. September is quite long ago. I think reinstatement makes more sense when the cut is not so long ago and when the problems come from too big a cut. 
what were your reactions to the Xanax?

 

thinking of you! 

 

@Neminafrom Sept until surgery was fine, could deal with the light waves now and then.  Stress began post surgery and especially being sent to the home and it snowballed from there.  I can't differentiate the reactions to Xanax as it was just all bad, it hasn't stood out at all.  Late this afternoon I got a window, a dirty one.

@Bawneen, I hope you're sleeping with the angels right now. It seems you were pretty stable on your low dose of escitalopram until the surgery. It's a hard call as to whether to up dose or not, especially since you got a dirty window today. If the escitalopram was effective in the past, I could imagine that upping it a minor amount to start could possibly have a beneficial effect and help you get past the setbacks from the surgery. I personally was so happy to be able to reinstate paroxetine after withdrawals got so bad the 3 previous times I tried to get off. One reinstatement was almost a year later and after trying several other ADs.

 

I'm probably more of a risk taker than not, so I would not be totally against doing a minor up dose. Others on the site have more experience. It's a real toss-up. Maybe give it a few days after this dirty window to see how things play out? I hate to see you suffering so much. Keep us up on your progress.

 

xxoo Jamie

Hope you feel better soon @Bawneen and also make the decision which seems best for you 🤗🧡

9 hours ago, Bawneen said:

@Chippy @Luke @Catbird @gardengirl2 @Nemina  Hi when I was coming down on the taper I made 10% cuts and when I hit 0.20 mg I decided to stay (upcoming surgery) and I'm still at that level since last Sept.  Can I up dose by tiny increments because I'm really suffering.  Maybe by 1% tiny increments until I get some type of stability?  It's the same drug.   

When doing an updose you have to first ask why?

 

Updoses help to mitigate wd. If all your symptoms come from the surgery and the effect that had on your nervous system, which I think they do, then adding in more drug won’t help as it isn’t wd that is causing you the problem. Adding in more drug is risky too and could make you worse. 
 

Chippy

@Bawneen, you could try cautious updosing if you want, but the results are difficult to predict given that you were destabilised after surgery.

 

My gut feeling would be not to, given you are starting to have dirty windows, but this is just me.

How are you, @Bawneen ? Thinking of you 💭🙂