Hello everyone,

My name is Tom and I’m from the Netherlands. I have been tapering off antidepressants for quite some time and have experienced the typical windows and waves pattern during recovery. I'm down to 3,6mg escitalopram. 

 

From around May last year until December I was doing reasonably well without major waves. I still had some ups and downs, but overall things felt quite stable during that period.

Earlier this year I was ill for several weeks with persistent sinus infections that took a lot of energy. During that time I did not really experience withdrawal symptoms or waves yet. However, around the end of February a wave seemed to start.

This wave has now been going on for about five weeks. During this period I have also had some windows where I felt noticeably better for a while, which made me hope that the wave was ending. Unfortunately the symptoms then returned again.

Yesterday was a particularly heavy wave day with strong activation, poor sleep and difficult mornings. The mornings currently seem to be the hardest with symptoms like inner agitation, higher heart rate, cold feet and that typical “cortisol surge” feeling when waking up.

During the day the symptoms fluctuate. Sometimes things calm down a bit in the evening, but mornings can still be quite intense. I’ve experienced waves before and they eventually passed, but when you are in the middle of one it can still feel pretty overwhelming.

Because of the unexpected intensity and length of this wave, my confidence has taken quite a hit. The wave itself and the uncertainty about how long it will last have made it harder to keep trusting that things will stabilise again. 

 

I previously had a recovery thread on Surviving Antidepressants and found that community very helpful, so I thought I would introduce myself here as well.

 

I was wondering if others have experienced something similar, having a relatively long and heavy wave after a fairly stable period. I’m also wondering if this wave could have been triggered by the illness earlier this year, or if it could be my nervous system still catching up with the taper I did last year. Last taper was end of november and i didnt taper because i got ill. I could really use some reassurance.

 

Wishing everyone strength and healing in recovery!

 

My SA Thread;

 

Hi @Sandnit

 

Welcome to the forum

 

Thank you for posting your introduction topic and for filling in your signature.

 

I have linked to your thread on SA for you.

 

2 hours ago, Sandnit said:

From around May last year until December I was doing reasonably well without major waves. I still had some ups and downs, but overall things felt quite stable during that period.

So it looks like from your signature your initial 'proper' reduction of 10% from 5mg to 4.5mg was a bit much for you. This isn't uncommon. Your nervous system took quite a hit from your faster drop prior to finding SA. I see getofflex recommended a long hold which seems to have worked really well for you and settled things down. I think it would have been better to have tried a smaller reduction or a Micro Taper tbh after this hold. So after this 10% you held to again to gain back stablity.

 

2 hours ago, Sandnit said:

Earlier this year I was ill for several weeks with persistent sinus infections that took a lot of energy. During that time I did not really experience withdrawal symptoms or waves yet. However, around the end of February a wave seemed to start.

Your signature says you have been holding since Nov? And that is when you got ill so hence the hold? But you got ill again this year so stayed on your hold?

 

2 hours ago, Sandnit said:

This wave has now been going on for about five weeks. During this period I have also had some windows where I felt noticeably better for a while, which made me hope that the wave was ending. Unfortunately the symptoms then returned again.

As you know it is very common to see this. The windows are a good sign. As you know eviedence your brain is finding its way.

 

2 hours ago, Sandnit said:

Yesterday was a particularly heavy wave day with strong activation, poor sleep and difficult mornings. The mornings currently seem to be the hardest with symptoms like inner agitation, higher heart rate, cold feet and that typical “cortisol surge” feeling when waking up.

During the day the symptoms fluctuate. Sometimes things calm down a bit in the evening, but mornings can still be quite intense. I’ve experienced waves before and they eventually passed, but when you are in the middle of one it can still feel pretty overwhelming.

Because of the unexpected intensity and length of this wave, my confidence has taken quite a hit. The wave itself and the uncertainty about how long it will last have made it harder to keep trusting that things will stabilise again. 

Im sorry to read this. Very frustrating and worrying I am sure. To reassure you. You will stablise! 🙂 

 

2 hours ago, Sandnit said:

I was wondering if others have experienced something similar, having a relatively long and heavy wave after a fairly stable period. I’m also wondering if this wave could have been triggered by the illness earlier this year, or if it could be my nervous system still catching up with the taper I did last year. Last taper was end of november and i didnt taper because i got ill. I could really use some reassurance.

Many have found this can happen. And yes illness can definitely trigger a wave. 

 

It is worth noting the lower you get the slower many have to go.

 

I think your nervous system is very sensitive. I think you are right to hold here. I would continue to do this, for some time until you feel some stablity, for perhaps 6 weeks or so once that stablity is reached, I think this will help make the rest of the taper easier for you. From there I would Micro Taper, I strongly suspect your nervous system will find this much more gentler. Micro Tapering

 

Thanks again for joining, you are so very welcome here.

 

Chippy

 

 

@Chippy,

 

Thank you for the warm welcome and for taking the time to read through my introduction and signature. I really appreciate it.

You are right the reduction from 5 mg to 4.5 mg using the tapering strips I also switched brands at the same time, so it was both a formulation change and a 10% reduction in one step. In hindsight that was clearly too much for my system. After that I held for quite a long time until things stabilised again. After stabilising I started making much smaller reductions of around 0.1–0.2 mg at a time, which seemed to work much better for me and actually went quite well for quite a long period.

 

2 hours ago, Chippy said:

I think your nervous system is very sensitive. I think you are right to hold here. I would continue to do this, for some time until you feel some stablity, for perhaps 6 weeks or so once that stablity is reached, I think this will help make the rest of the taper easier for you. From there I would Micro Taper, I strongly suspect your nervous system will find this much more gentler. Micro Tapering

 

I am actually not using the tapering strips exactly as they are intended. I order strips with the same total dose but built up from tablets including 0.1 mg tablets. That way I can make small reductions myself when I feel ready rather than following a fixed daily reduction schedule.

Overall the taper from 4.5 mg downward seemed to be going quite well. I had a fairly long stable period from May until December without major waves.

The downside of this approach is that I cannot make reductions smaller than 0.1 mg (around 3%). That is probably fine at this stage of the taper, but it may become too large later on. I really do not want to switch brands again because of my previous experience, but at some point in the future I may have to switch to liquid in order to make smaller reductions. Or maybe i can ask the tapering strip manufacturer to make smaller dosages for me ..... but they will probably tell me this is imposible.

 

Earlier this year I was ill for several weeks with persistent sinus infections that took a lot of energy. During that time I didn’t really experience withdrawal symptoms yet, but not long after that, around the end of February, this wave started. Because of that timing I sometimes wonder if the illness may have triggered the wave rather than it being directly related to the taper itself....... ?

 

Yesterday was a particularly heavy wave day which made things feel quite discouraging, but today already feels a small bit better again. I’m hoping that means my nervous system is starting to settle again.

For now I will definitely continue holding until things stabilise more. Your reassurance that stabilisation will come is really helpful to hear!! 

 

Thanks again for the welcome!

 

Sandnit

51 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

Thank you for the warm welcome and for taking the time to read through my introduction and signature. I really appreciate it.

Pleasure mate. 
 

51 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

You are right the reduction from 5 mg to 4.5 mg using the tapering strips I also switched brands at the same time, so it was both a formulation change and a 10% reduction in one step. In hindsight that was clearly too much for my system. After that I held for quite a long time until things stabilised again.

Ah yes. I forgot to mention that. We normally suggest a crossover taper to allow for an easier transition between the two types before tapering. 
 

51 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

After stabilising I started making much smaller reductions of around 0.1–0.2 mg at a time, which seemed to work much better for me and actually went quite well for quite a long period.

Yes I saw. It’s good you felt better. I calculated some of those drops and they were around 2.5-5% I think depending on which one we are talking about. A full micro taper is 1/30 of your monthly drop so tiny daily decreases. Not that it has to be that regimented tbh but you can see there is scope to reduce in a more sensitive way then you have already. 
 

51 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

really do not want to switch brands again because of my previous experience, but at some point in the future I may have to switch to liquid in order to make smaller reductions.

You could probably just use a single pill and make a liquid from that. Not sure on how flexible the taper strips are or if you get pills or capsules but maybe you could ask them to make all the pills the same size and then suspend each one in liquid. No brand swap then. Just a thought. Or as you say switch to a liquid and do the crossover taper I mentioned above 

 

51 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

During that time I didn’t really experience withdrawal symptoms yet, but not long after that, around the end of February, this wave started.

This is a good sign. Your hold from last year was working out. Getting sick had just ramped it all up for you. You’ll get there. 
 

51 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

but today already feels a small bit better again. I’m hoping that means my nervous system is starting to settle again.

I think so. 😀

 

51 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

Thanks again for the welcome!

Happy to!

46 minutes ago, Chippy said:

Ah yes. I forgot to mention that. We normally suggest a crossover taper to allow for an easier transition between the two types before tapering

Well i did a cross over but in only 2 weeks. Much to short in hindsight...... 🙂

 

47 minutes ago, Chippy said:

You could probably just use a single pill and make a liquid from that. Not sure on how flexible the taper strips are or if you get pills or capsules but maybe you could ask them to make all the pills the same size and then suspend each one in liquid. No brand swap then. Just a thought.

Yeah thats actually a great suggestion mate.  Daily dose comes in small sachets. Each sachet contains pills for one day. At the moment I’m on 3.6 mg. In each sachet there is:
1 × 2 mg
1 × 1 mg
6 × 0.1 mg
So the smallest tablet I currently have is 0.1 mg. If I would dissolve one of those 0.1 mg tablets in water, I could theoretically make smaller steps than 0.1 mg if needed.

 

For now I’m holding because of the current wave, but I find it interesting to know that this could be an option later on if I want to taper more slowly.

Thanks again for the idea!

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

Well i did a cross over but in only 2 weeks. Much to short in hindsight.....

Better then none!

 

38 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

So the smallest tablet I currently have is 0.1 mg. If I would dissolve one of those 0.1 mg tablets in water, I could theoretically make smaller steps than 0.1 mg if needed.

Sounds good. You could try to reduce 0.1mg in the first month (-2.77%) and just do it in daily steps. So dissolve it in 30ml water and take 1ml per day less by removing that amount with a syringe. Or double that 0.2 for a (-5.55%) reduction. You might find you can carry that rate on without recalculating for a bit. Main thing is to listen to your body and take some little holds here and there to let your brain catch up. Better to be stable and tapering!

 

43 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

For now I’m holding because of the current wave, but I find it interesting to know that this could be an option later on if I want to taper more slowly.

Thanks again for the idea!

First job! Pleasure mate. 

Update;

Last week I had a couple of good days again, so it felt like the wave was starting to lift.

After a busy weekend (short sleep and social activity), I’ve had a few rough days again. I also accidentally had 2 regular beers instead of alcohol-free, which might not have helped, but I’m not sure if that’s the main cause.

The days right after the weekend weren’t too bad, but then symptoms picked up again.

There is still movement throughout the day and every day feels a bit different (activation, fatigue, overstimulation), and sometimes it improves later in the day.

It feels more like a wobble or continuation of the same wave rather than a completely new one, but it’s definitely rough at the moment.

Does this still fit with the “wave tail” / stabilization phase others have experienced?

21 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

Update;

Last week I had a couple of good days again, so it felt like the wave was starting to lift.

After a busy weekend (short sleep and social activity), I’ve had a few rough days again. I also accidentally had 2 regular beers instead of alcohol-free, which might not have helped, but I’m not sure if that’s the main cause.

The days right after the weekend weren’t too bad, but then symptoms picked up again.

There is still movement throughout the day and every day feels a bit different (activation, fatigue, overstimulation), and sometimes it improves later in the day.

It feels more like a wobble or continuation of the same wave rather than a completely new one, but it’s definitely rough at the moment.

Does this still fit with the “wave tail” / stabilization phase others have experienced?

Hi @Sandnit definitely, symptoms that continue with varying intensities, some new, all part of the process.

Glad that you manage to stay busy and social, that's a big plus but afterwards, sometimes it shows signs of fatigue and a slight increase in symptoms, which is normal and balances out.

I'm very sorry that you're not feeling well right now but this too, as always, will pass.

Keep up your great work.

@Fullhealing

Thanks a lot for your reply, that really helps.
It’s reassuring to hear that the fluctuation and increase after a busy weekend is still part of the process. I do recognize the fatigue and temporary worsening after being more active and social.
I’ve had a few better days recently, so I try to hold on to that and remind myself that there is still movement and that it’s not a constant downward trend.
It’s just tough when it suddenly feels more intense again, but I know from experience that it can shift again.
Thanks again for the reassurance 🙏

20 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

@Fullhealing

Thanks a lot for your reply, that really helps.
It’s reassuring to hear that the fluctuation and increase after a busy weekend is still part of the process. I do recognize the fatigue and temporary worsening after being more active and social.
I’ve had a few better days recently, so I try to hold on to that and remind myself that there is still movement and that it’s not a constant downward trend.
It’s just tough when it suddenly feels more intense again, but I know from experience that it can shift again.
Thanks again for the reassurance 🙏

With much love @Sandnit I see that your mindset is in the right place, you are not giving it too much space and you are taking control, so well done, it is very difficult to do in the process.

Keep staying active, little by little you will find the balance that suits you, a learning process for all of us 🙏

1 hour ago, Sandnit said:

Update;

Last week I had a couple of good days again, so it felt like the wave was starting to lift.

Thanks for the update!

Good to hear, clear signs of healing happening!

1 hour ago, Sandnit said:

After a busy weekend (short sleep and social activity), I’ve had a few rough days again. I also accidentally had 2 regular beers instead of alcohol-free, which might not have helped, but I’m not sure if that’s the main cause.

It is so very common to have some rough days, waves and windows! People often find, if they over do it, or are particulary busy, it can trigger symptoms. The Beer certainly could do this! 100% keep away from alcohol!

1 hour ago, Sandnit said:

and sometimes it improves later in the day.

Very common.

1 hour ago, Sandnit said:

Does this still fit with the “wave tail” / stabilization phase others have experienced?

100%!

Hope this little wave settles down!

Chippy

@Sandnit Welcome after reading your post it sounds familiar to my story and nothing on your post surprised me of that helps . Withdrawal is so unpredictable bit like the British weather each day we never know what we are in for . I too was very stable up until the beginning of February has a bad cough and virus then I decided to get some dental work done .Well from there on in I was like yourself all over the place with a heavy wave and still suffering now with the same symptoms. Unfortunately you are in withdrawal and it's just that, but we are the lucky ones we have got this forum and the wonderful people on it ..you will be ok might be a bit ofna bumpy ride but there's plenty of support here to help you recover

@Fullhealing @Chippy @Beehive ,Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it 🙏

@Beehive I really recognize a lot in your story. The way things can be stable for a while and then suddenly shift again after something like illness or stress is very relatable. I’m sorry you’re going through this as well, it’s definitely not something I would wish on anyone. At the same time it’s reassuring to know I’m not the only one experiencing this pattern.

What I notice myself is exactly what you all describe: I had some better days recently, which gave me confidence, and now after a busy weekend and poor sleep my system seems more sensitive again.
The symptoms also seem to shift a bit (activation, fatigue, tinnitus/humming, overstimulation), but there is still movement during the day and sometimes it improves later on. That’s something I try to hold on to.
I will continue to take it step by step, stay active but not overdo it, and give my system time to find its balance again.

Thanks again for the support, it really helps to read your experiences and reassurance 🙏

@Sandnit Easier said than done but try mot to over analyse your symptons too much as is just feeds into them . Yes doing certain things can bring on a wave as you are overstimulating your already sensitised nervous system . A lot of self care is needed and listening to your body. Whether we like it or not definitely not lol but our body will do what's necessary to balance itself and we have no.choice but to go along on the ride. Always best to go with the flow rather than resist ...its not the destination that matters as much but the journey to get there .

Quick update:

Yesterday and today have been quite heavy again, especially in the mornings with activation and that “chemical anxious” feeling, which sometimes persists during the day.

The anxiety is definitely the hardest part for me at the moment and makes it difficult to fully accept what’s happening. As usual, the wave also seems to drain my confidence, which makes it extra challenging to stay positive and believe this is temporary.

But somewhere underneath it all, I know this will ease up… it’s just hard right now.

Wishing you all good healing.

33 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

CalQuick update:

Yesterday and today have been quite heavy again, especially in the mornings with activation and that “chemical anxious” feeling, which sometimes persists during the day.

The anxiety is definitely the hardest part for me at the moment and makes it difficult to fully accept what’s happening. As usual, the wave also seems to drain my confidence, which makes it extra challenging to stay positive and believe this is temporary.

But somewhere underneath it all, I know this will ease up… it’s just hard right now.

Wishing you all good healing.

No matter how many waves, anxious moments, symptoms, panic attacks, or insomnia bouts, etc., you have had, it always feels like the first one, the initial moment you're in it. Sometimes you can move away from that feeling. Sometimes not. And when it hangs on, it is really hard to move away from it. But you know better. You have memories and experiences of windows added to your "hope file". Call on them like you're looking through a photo album, reminiscing. Use objects, stories, your own writings, other people's writings, a song, a movie, a souvenir, stupid pet videos, things that give you comfort, joy, or nostalgia, even catharsis and bittersweetness. Live in it. Relish it. Even if you watched something for the 1000th time, watch it again. Who cares? Your nervous system needs to feel safe again. If it gets you through another hour or day, then watch it again. They don't have to have anything to do with your mental health experiences. They can just be something silly, with no rhyme or reason. Give the body feedback that soothes you, like a warm bath without chemicals, perfumes or Epsom salts. Like you're soothing a crying baby, and you're rocking it back and forth, rubbing its back, calming it down.

Trying to understand why you're in this bad wave mode again is also your nervous system, looking for safety. I think it was a combination of all of the above-mentioned, and your body is trying to find ground again. It got a good couple of strong blows, knocked down, but not out. Stay down, get your bearings. You will stand up again.

1 hour ago, Sandnit said:

Quick update:

Yesterday and today have been quite heavy again, especially in the mornings with activation and that “chemical anxious” feeling, which sometimes persists during the day.

The anxiety is definitely the hardest part for me at the moment and makes it difficult to fully accept what’s happening. As usual, the wave also seems to drain my confidence, which makes it extra challenging to stay positive and believe this is temporary.

But somewhere underneath it all, I know this will ease up… it’s just hard right now.

Wishing you all good healing.

Hey @Sandnit

Sorry you are having a rough time still. The waves can seem so overpowering and endless when in the middle of one. But they pass. And it is, indeed, temporary.

We are all here fo you when you need.

Chippy

@Kymeira Thank you so much, this really resonates. The “hope file” is a great reminder. I do have those better moments and I need to keep calling on them more. Really appreciate your support 🙏

@Chippy

Thanks a lot for the reassurance, it really helps to hear that. It does feel endless in some moments, but I’ll keep reminding myself that it will pass. Appreciate the support 🙏

2 minutes ago, Sandnit said:

Thanks a lot for the reassurance, it really helps to hear that. It does feel endless in some moments, but I’ll keep reminding myself that it will pass. Appreciate the support 🙏

Any time. Remember that symptoms are a sign of healing, not a sign of getting worse.

3 hours ago, Chippy said:

Any time. Remember that symptoms are a sign of healing, not a sign of getting worse.

@Chippy , yes .... sometimes i forget. Thank you for reminding me. And thank you for your incredible work here !!

Just now, Sandnit said:

Thank you for reminding me.

Pleasure mate. We are always here to support one and other. 😀

Quick update:

The past few days have been quite up and down. I had a reasonably good day yesterday, but today feels heavier again with more activation and that “chemical anxious and depressive” feeling.

It’s hard how quickly it can shift and how it affects confidence, but I remind myself this is part of the process and that it has improved before.

Still trying to accept it and move through the day.

Wishing everyone strength and good healing.

It can shift quickly, which is difficult when it shifts the wrong way.

Better/reasonably good days are a good sign though, and worse days don't change that.

15 minutes ago, Luke said:

It can shift quickly, which is difficult when it shifts the wrong way.

Better/reasonably good days are a good sign though, and worse days don't change that.

@Luke thank you for your post. It is so true! I guess the shifts are necessary for the body to take a step in the right direction.....

Update:

Today is hard again, different from yesterday, but still hard. I won’t go into all the symptoms.

Just hoping this wave settles soon and I can find some stability again. It’s just really hard to believe that when you’re in the thick of it… even after being proven wrong so many times ;)

Hope you’re all finding some better moments!!!