How are you, @Pokey449 now?

Svetla

Edited January 31Jan 31 by skamen

It’s amazing & horrifying as well how one glitch, one mistake made in this taper business can cause such awful affects. I split taking my dose yesterday to morning/bedtime thinking I would be improving things for myself by addressing what turns out to be symptoms from interdose tolerance . Doxepin has a15-18 hr 1/2 life is why I was getting interdose WD symptoms. Instead I feel like hell today. I apparently needed to take a slower pace at splitting my dose into two doses. So noi backed up & took my regular full dose this morning thinking, hoping things would smooth out by afternoon. They haven’t. Feel literally awful. A 1-2 at best.  I’ve done 2 tapers in the past (you’d think I’d learn) and had no problems at all. But this time is hell. I guess my age and a 3rd time is not a charm. My brain is very sensitive this go round   The way I’m feeling now I’m wondering if I will actually survive this one 😩 Tonight is going to be hell I can tell. 

10 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

I’m exhausted & in a panic. I split my dose yesterday taking 1/2 at  8am and the other 1/2 at bedtime as was suggested to me. I had a terrible night. Awoke about 230 very restless. Worst night ever. Spasms of Akathisia, or that’s what I call Akathisia. An awful restlessness that draws me up into a ball. Think I should have made the timing of the split  gradual as recommended in a post by ChessyCat on SA; take the other 1/2 of your dose a hour later each day until you reach the time you want.  I don’t know what to do now. Feeling bad and in a panic wondering how to fix this. Do I go back to full dose at my regular time of 8am and then start taking the 2nd split dose an hour later each day, 2 hours later each day or what?? Should I schedule with Horowitz again and see what he says. 
Are the moderators of SA making the switch to here?? I need to get this straightened out or I think I’m going curl up in a ball and die. 

Oh no….so terrible.! I am sorry 😢. I really hope for you that everything will calm down soon! I once forgot a whole dose during taper and found out 24 hours later. Of course I felt terrible for a couple of days but not longer. It smoothed  out fast. So I want to encourage you it might be a short problem!

@Nemina i hope you are correct that my errors affects will be short lived.  The interdose symptoms have been going on for a while not knowing what they were or what was causing them. Once I get settled down I need to split my daily dose  into 2 doses so I can sleep better at night. Haven’t felt like I’ve had a really good nights sleep in months. Affects every aspect of my life. 

7 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy is this new site going to eventually be like SA and send emails to let you know someone has posted on your thread? Doesn’t seem to be doing that yet. I appreciate there’s lots to do setting up a site like this. So far it’s great!!! 

Hi Pokey

 

Yes it can do that. You need to set it up in the notifications section. You can select email for what ever you would like to be notified for. I can do it here for you remotely if you struggle to work that out. Just let me know. 
 

Chippy

5 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

It’s amazing & horrifying as well how one glitch, one mistake made in this taper business can cause such awful affects. I split taking my dose yesterday to morning/bedtime thinking I would be improving things for myself by addressing what turns out to be symptoms from interdose tolerance . Doxepin has a15-18 hr 1/2 life is why I was getting interdose WD symptoms. Instead I feel like hell today. I apparently needed to take a slower pace at splitting my dose into two doses. So noi backed up & took my regular full dose this morning thinking, hoping things would smooth out by afternoon. They haven’t. Feel literally awful. A 1-2 at best.  I’ve done 2 tapers in the past (you’d think I’d learn) and had no problems at all. But this time is hell. I guess my age and a 3rd time is not a charm. My brain is very sensitive this go round   The way I’m feeling now I’m wondering if I will actually survive this one 😩 Tonight is going to be hell I can tell. 

I’m sorry Pokey. Yes our brains are very sensitive to dose shifts. You need to stay put for a minute. But in the mean time get a set of Gemini 20 scales. You can use these to check the accuracy of your split. It’s very hard to cut a pill in half. Overall you might not find it an issue as you will still be taking a whole one over 24 hours but to be safe it might worth using the scales to make sure each dose is consistent. We’ve used them here and it’s helped my wife when stopping a pain killer she’s been on a long time. 
 

Hope you feel better but it may take a while to settle. You know what these things are like. Got it crossed it isn’t too long. 
 

Chippy

Hi @Pokey449 I am very sorry you have been hit bad. Now my thinking is the change is accentuating just

how much your brain does not like Doxepin. Like Chippy says, restart it as you were doing and then do as 

Chessycat says. A tricky one Pokey but your body hates Doxepin, I wonder if you have become drug tolerant

to it? I really do hope you get this sorted out very soon bud.

Please take it slow and easy,          B.🤞

Morning @NT1100B @Chippy Good to hear from you in our new place that Chippy and others have done such a great job with. I and I’m sure others really appreciate having a place like this to come to to share struggles and to receive and give support & comfort to each other. 
Chippy thanks for the scale suggestion but I’m currently using a combination of doxepin capsules & liquid doxepin to make my 29mg daily dose. Doxepin is available in the US in liquid form. Currently I’m taking a 25mg cap + 0.4ml of liquid. The liquid form comes in a concentration of 10mg/ml. Therefore 0.4ml =4mg. 25mg cap +4mg liquid = my current dose of 29mg. Eventually I’ll go solely to the liquid. 
B I’m not sure what being drug tolerant is. Can you explain. You are correct in that my brain is VERY sensitive to changes with this poison. I tapered off doxepin once before in 2014 and had no issues. Had no issues being on it. Piece of cake actually. One reason I was put back on it.  But boy howdy!! Not this time. I should have left well enough the hell alone. 
Yesterday I went back to my morning dosing routine. Got 7 hours of fractured sleep last night. Not great but I’ll take it.But something very untoward is happening in my sleep even when I get 7 hrs. I wake up multiple times feeling very unwell. Groggy headed. Headache, restless, unsteady on my feet when I get up, sometimes in pain. I thought at first it was poor cpap therapy due to congestion but I get the same symptoms off cpap as well. I think it’s the doxepin having a very negative affect on my brain & body. No doctor has been able to tell me any different. My sleep doc thinks it’s bad cpap but I’ve proved that wrong. Don’t have any symptoms to lead to believe it’s my heart. Pretty it’s the doxepin messing me up somehow. Thing is I don’t know what if anything I can do about it. Can’t just stop the doxepin🤔😩 Feel like I’m caught between a rock and a hard spot hoping I survive. 

Pokey

@Chippy ok I think ???? I  have it set up to email me when someone posts a response on my thread 

16 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

Good to hear from you in our new place that Chippy and others have done such a great job with. I and I’m sure others really appreciate having a place like this to come to to share struggles and to receive and give support & comfort to each other. 

Glad you like it here Pokey. Hope it helps having access to the community still after SA has shut.

 

17 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

Chippy thanks for the scale suggestion but I’m currently using a combination of doxepin capsules & liquid doxepin to make my 29mg daily dose. Doxepin is available in the US in liquid form. Currently I’m taking a 25mg cap + 0.4ml of liquid. The liquid form comes in a concentration of 10mg/ml. Therefore 0.4ml =4mg. 25mg cap +4mg liquid = my current dose of 29mg. Eventually I’ll go solely to the liquid. 

Oh here's thought mate. You are not really supposed to mix the two versions of the drug together from what I understand. Can cause issues. Might be something to consider. Personally Id look to only use one version of the drug.

 

Sounds like swapping back quickly has helped settle things a bit.

Obviously you weren't great before but maybe back to your base line. Id stay here for a few days and assess from their mate. Then as suggested start to split the dose and creep one half slowly later.

 

Your brain is very sensitised Id try my best to make sure you dose is consistent each time you take it. Also consider what I said about only being on one type of drug and perhaps slowly switch it to just liquid or tablet rather than jump to all one or the other if that makes sense. If you want to do that maybe do that before you split your dose. You've seen what sudden moves can do. Have a bit of read up on SA about it all bud. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy ok I think ???? I  have it set up to email me when someone posts a response on my thread 

Hey mate. I just checked looks like it still wasn't done. Ive turned on email notifications for followed content, and for tagged content too so you should get an email for each of these now. There are other options you can pick if you get too many emails and it gets annoying. Just send me a private message and I can change it all for you should you struggle.

@Chippy ok I’ll read up

on using only one form of the drug. Im not sure why mixing forms makes a difference but there’s a lot I don’t know even at 76 🤣 If I switch to only one form I’ll go the liquid route. Can’t do all capsules for odd amounts like 29mg. Weighing tedious amounts like that leaves room for error unless you have a laboratory grade balance scale which are very $$$.  I’m a former lab tech and I don’t trust a $100 scale you can buy on Amazon. I can be pretty precise with the liquid form however. 
I’m thinking of doing another session with Horowitz about all this. I still have lots of questions that I know my local psych provider will have no answers to. He’s a kind caring person very open to me doing a slow taper but the complexity of it all is beyond his skill set 

3 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy ok I’ll read up

on using only one form of the drug. Im not sure why mixing forms makes a difference but there’s a lot I don’t know even at 76 🤣 If I switch to only one form I’ll go the liquid route. Can’t do all capsules for odd amounts like 29mg. Weighing tedious amounts like that leaves room for error unless you have a laboratory grade balance scale which are very $$$.  I’m a former lab tech and I don’t trust a $100 scale you can buy on Amazon. I can be pretty precise with the liquid form however. 
I’m thinking of doing another session with Horowitz about all this. I still have lots of questions that I know my local psych provider will have no answers to. He’s a kind caring person very open to me doing a slow taper but the complexity of it all is beyond his skill set 

Sounds good mate. Yeah liquid is a good route when on low doses. 
 

No harm having another chat with Dr H other than the cost. But your health is worth the investment. 

1 hour ago, Pokey449 said:

B I’m not sure what being drug tolerant is. Can you explain. You are correct in that my brain is VERY sensitive to changes with this poison. I tapered off doxepin once before in 2014 and had no issues. Had no issues being on it. Piece of cake actually.

Hi @Pokey449 Drug tolerant is when your body rejects the drug. I become drug tolerant on Tramadol. Now I didn't know

what was going on. 10 days off sick from work. I did wonder if it was Covid, but 3 tests proved it wasn't. So I was searching

on the internet was answers, side affects all wrong symptoms. THEN I stumbled on Tramadol withdrawals....and BAM exactly

the symptoms I was suffering. SO hang on I thought I was still taking 300mg a day???? how can this be????   so digging deeper

revealed drug tolerance, some call it poop out. Your liver STOPS processing it, THUS causing WITHDRAWALS. So I had to do a

rapid taper off Tramadol, which I did a vast amount easier than Mirt.   But once off I couldn't sleep, hence leading to MIRT.

Now I am only guessing Pokey, I am sure you will suss it out. Take great care my good man.

All the best,       B.🤞

 

@NT1100B @Chippy  think I’m going to do another short session with Horowitz to discuss all this stuff. It’s hard to sort it all out and figure out best strategies to address it. Got to do something as I’m wearing out. Can’t remember the last time I felt normal. 

2 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@NT1100B @Chippy  think I’m going to do another short session with Horowitz to discuss all this stuff. It’s hard to sort it all out and figure out best strategies to address it. Got to do something as I’m wearing out. Can’t remember the last time I felt normal. 

 

Good luck, I hope that it is helpful for you.

10 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@NT1100B @Chippy  think I’m going to do another short session with Horowitz to discuss all this stuff. It’s hard to sort it all out and figure out best strategies to address it. Got to do something as I’m wearing out. Can’t remember the last time I felt normal. 

Great stuff Pokey. Yes see what he says. Overall having a clear plan and exercising is precisely is the way. The Nervous system likes stability. Let us know how you get on. 

19 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

Im not sure why mixing forms makes a difference but there’s a lot I don’t know even at 76 🤣

Im not sure it's a massive issue. I have just heard a few say they had issues when being on both. See what the big man says. When is your appointment?

Well another s***ty nights sleep. Worse than last night but better than Friday night. I see my regular psych provider today. He’s a really good caring person. He doesn’t really understand what’s going on I don’t think but he fully supports my slow tapering. Which is a plus given most American psych docs think you can get off these poisons in a few weeks. 
I’m communicating now with Horowitz ‘s shop again to see him one more time. I have more questions about drug tolerance and splitting the dose between morning & bedtime to hopefully avoid interdose WD sxs. 
Take care everyone. 
Pokey 

15 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

I’m communicating now with Horowitz ‘s shop again to see him one more time. I have more questions about drug tolerance and splitting the dose between morning & bedtime to hopefully avoid interdose WD sxs. 
Take care everyone. 
Pokey 

Hi @Pokey449 Sorry about your crap sleep mate, I am certainly no stranger to that s**t. Yes I hope Horowitz

can put you clear on it Bud, you already know it shouldn't be in your system. But we somehow get trapped, a 

bloody nightmare. If we could just CT them without problems it would be easy. But hell, nothings easy with these

bloody things. Wishing you all the best Bud.

Take care,      B.🤞 

Hi @NT1100B Ohhhhh boyyyy!! Do I ever feel awful today. I try not to look at the clock but think I woke up about 130-2;00 and that was it for the night.  Awoke feeling very restless, creepy crawly, nausea, just super s**ty!!! I cut 1.5% for 10 days and another 1.5% 5 days ago. So 3% in the last 15 days.  Based on past experiences it’s hard for me to think that’s what’s got me so discombobulated, but maybe so. I’m older now & not my first taper. 
I’ve got another session with Horowitz scheduled for Thursday. I’m concerned about ADR between Mirt & doxepin and the fact that both drugs are metabolized in part by the same enzyme which could potentially cause problems. Of course if there are any such problems I’m not sure what can be done about it. 
But I’m feeling pretty drug sick today and laying in bed not being able to sleep doesn’t make me feel any better. I’m in a sickening feeling wave now and it’s another 1.5 hrs before my dose time. 
I don’t know much longer I can keep this up. I’m getting really worn out. Sooner or later something has to give up 😩🥲☠️

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

I don’t know much longer I can keep this up. I’m getting really worn out. Sooner or later something has to give up 😩🥲☠️

 

Hi @Pokey449 Sorry to hear this mate, maybe hold for now and see what Dr Horowitz says. You and me both know

the 2 drugs are a bad mix, but lowering Doxepin gradually you would have thought should EASE your pain, not make

it worse. See what the expert says Pokey and then take it very slowly from there. Stay strong Bud.

Take care,        B.🤞 

Hi @NT1100B B. I was looking at some of my past medical records. I was on both Mirtazapine & Doxepin at the same time in higher doses in 2015-16.  I was tapering off the doxepin then as well. I don’t recall any WD or drug drug problems then at all. But I was 10 years younger & my brain was “more fresh” But it’s not that way now. 
I’ve picked up a little bit this afternoon. Not great, 4-5 but way better than the 0 earlier. I cancelled a dental appointment today.  Rescheduled it for next week and canceled a masssge that was for tomorrow. Hope to reschedule that soon. My old body needs a good massage. Just hope I get some sleep tonight.  Hope you get a decent night too. Take care. 
Pokey 

@skamen is that you Svetla? I was looking for your SA profile name and couldn’t find you. 
How are you doing today? I’m not doing to good today. Had a terrible night, been feeling rotten all time. Drop me a line to let me know how you’re doing. 
Pokey 

@NT1100B B how do you deal with the combination of feeling horrible, being alone in the house and not feeling like doing anything, even simple things like going to the dentist or getting a massage?  I’m feeling so

rotten today I’ve not been outside and I’m spending much of the day collapsed in my recliner. Feel like I’m going to wither and blow away. As I mentioned before I have tapered before  did fine but I’m not sure I will survive this one. 😩