@Pokey449 7 Natural GLP-1 Boosters That Work Better Than Ozempic: https://www.preventivemedicinedaily.com/diseases-conditions/endocrine/metabolism/7-natural-glp-1-boosters-that-work-better-than-ozempic/#5-chia-seeds

You might find something on the above website to help with weight loss. Best of luck!

Terry

18 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

Hi @Chippy i guess like many of us here I get a ray of hope that one is finally stabilizing, that my sleep is smoothing out, that I’m going start feeling better on a more regular basis, that I’m going to stabilize & be ok & then BAM!!! Hammered again!! Last night was a really s****y night again. Waking up multiple times my whole body aching & with that creepy crawly claustrophobic sickening feeling. Cortisol spikes I guess??? 7 hrs one night, 3 broken hours last night. Today was to be an exercise day but I am doubting that will happen. I’m really very sick n tired of this. It’s Impossible to make any plans for the future. Im losing hope I’m ever going to be able to travel to be with my family 😢Yesterday I could have tolerated air travel. Impossible today!! And I don’t want to be at my daughters going in & out of this misery. It’s truly a Jekyll & Hyde existence taking me back to some very dark thoughts. 😩😢

I am sorry to read @Pokey449 , you are right this up and down nature is so hard to live with. I feel the same, sometimes I think it is getting easier and then all of a sudden you are hit again, it is just so unpredictable!

14 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy ive gained extra weight since being put on the doxepin 18months. Weight I don’t need or want. I think mid feel & sleep better if I lost 20-30lbs. I can’t exercise hard enough at my age. I’m researching taking a GLP 1 to help me achieve that but I don’t know if that would adversely impact my taper/WD. My research has indicated no negative drug reactions with a GLP1 & what I’m currently taking. I have yet to talk with my doctor. In the meantime I wanted to know your thoughts or if there’s any information here from others I could access? Thanks.

I would definitely not add anything to the mix mate, GLP1 supplements can effect your nervous system from what I understand. Diet and exercise is the way to go, I know it's hard but really concentrate on those things rather than adding fuel to the fire with more drugs/supplements.

@Terry thanks for the link. I’d agree natural methods are a better approach to weight loss although it seems GLP1 meds are helping lots of people who otherwise struggle with losing the extra pounds. I use to be very active ( cross country skiing, biking & backpacking) and kept the pounds off. Being 77 now with a couple health issues makes it much tougher to stay slim even on a healthy diet.

@Chippy yes this up& down is exhausting and demoralizing. I just want to give up at times. I’m not 100% it’s all due to WD though. Having sleep apnea & being on BIPAP complicates things , one affecting the other I think. I have a history of AFib as well. Though I’m not going into AFib I’m getting an”inconclusive” EKG at times on my smart watch when I awaken in the middle of the night in distress. Not sure what to make of that. Just saying other health issues can complicate WD and vise versa.

@Chippy I got the results of my overnight oximetry study. Without having my doctors input yet, it does not appear good. I had lots of 3% desaturations which is a gold standard measure. My Oxygen Desaturation Index was 20. Its my understanding anything greater than 15 is abnormal. Such results could be a cause for me waking multiple times not feeling well. Reminds me of @Sminismoni proposing that the doxepin could be suppressing my brains respiratory drive, though Dr. Horowitz disagreed with that possibility. Thing is I dont know what can be done about this. Im on BIPAP which I struggle with. No other options that Im aware of :o((........

I'm awaiting the results of a 72 hour heart monitoring study which will add to the picture in some way

13 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

I'm awaiting the results of a 72 hour heart monitoring study which will add to the picture in some way

I think I would wait till you have all the information at hand and had a consultation with your doctor before making any conclusions or speculating mate.

@Chippy i think im coming to the conclusion that the doxepin on top of the mirtazapine is the problem more than anything to do with WD per se. I hope I am proven wrong. But I think it’s messing with my respiratory function causing breathing issues while asleep and I’m being constantly partially awakened and not getting enough deeper restful sleep causing me to feel like hell much of the time. Again I hope im proven wrong. But if im not the long term prognosis is not good. I “slept” 6.5hrs last night but my sleep data is what I’d call broken & ragged & im exhausted. Again I hope I’m wrong & finally settle down

Hey Pokey

14 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

I “slept” 6.5hrs last night but my sleep data is what I’d call broken & ragged & im exhausted.

This is very common, I have this a lot too these drugs really screw with our sleep architecture.

Another night of hell & misery. Awoke about 330 in major distress. Im exhausted & feel weak & sick. Feeling hopeless this morning. I don’t think I can take much more of this.

@Pokey449 I’m so sorry!

Just hold onto ❤️

You’ll be speaking with your doctor soon. One day at a time 🙏

@Chippy I don’t know what else to do. I’m taking my dose faithfully every day at noon. I’ve been at the same total dose of 29.5mg since February. Albeit I had split my total dose into 2 half doses and tried taking them at diff times to theoretically address interdose WD only to return to a single full dose now at noon. All done with Dr H’s advice/approval. I’ve held off 45min-hour when I eat my lunch after taking my noon dose thinking food might interfere with it’s absorption, though everything I read says doxepin can be taken with food. I get a reasonable night or two of sleep thinking I’m finally stabilizing only to feel bad again like last night/today.

Being all alone & in significant distress my SI was pretty strong last night. I kept thinking about an old Rx in the medicine cabinet that would do the job🫩😩

Thank you @Finni

18 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy I don’t know what else to do. I’m taking my dose faithfully every day at noon. I’ve been at the same total dose of 29.5mg since February. Albeit I had split my total dose into 2 half doses and tried taking them at diff times to theoretically address interdose WD only to return to a single full dose now at noon. All done with Dr H’s advice/approval. I’ve held off 45min-hour when I eat my lunch after taking my noon dose thinking food might interfere with it’s absorption, though everything I read says doxepin can be taken with food. I get a reasonable night or two of sleep thinking I’m finally stabilizing only to feel bad again like last night/today.

Being all alone & in significant distress my SI was pretty strong last night. I kept thinking about an old Rx in the medicine cabinet that would do the job🫩😩

@Pokey449 put that old drug in the bin please. There is no need for such actions. You are much stronger than you realise. The fact you have some good nights is a great sign. You made a dosing error too don't forget, that alone is enough to upset some for months. Keep the ship pointing in the right course now with out any changes and have faith in your system my friend. One day at a time, I know it's tough but you have got this 👊

On 7/19/2026 at 8:53 AM, Pokey449 said:

old Rx in the medicine cabinet that would do the job

Please get rid of it as soon as possible! You don’t want to end up worse off.

On 7/19/2026 at 8:53 AM, Pokey449 said:

old Rx in the medicine cabinet that would do the job

@Chippy i had a terrible night last night. The previous night was not good either. I’m having breathing problems and it seems it’s getting worse. I’m able to go to sleep just fine and go back to sleep at least the first time I’m awakened because I can’t get enough air when via my cpap. I think my respiratory drive is being suppressed, perhaps by the doxepin mirtazapine combination. I don’t know why now but it seems its been slowly getting worse. I don’t know what to do. Afraid I’m going to die one night.

1 hour ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy i had a terrible night last night. The previous night was not good either. I’m having breathing problems and it seems it’s getting worse. I’m able to go to sleep just fine and go back to sleep at least the first time I’m awakened because I can’t get enough air when via my cpap. I think my respiratory drive is being suppressed, perhaps by the doxepin mirtazapine combination. I don’t know why now but it seems its been slowly getting worse. I don’t know what to do. Afraid I’m going to die one night.

Hey @Pokey449 I am so very sorry to read you have had another couple of bad nights. It is great you get better nights I think that is a really good sign.

Obviously we are not medical professionals here so if you feel you are in genuine danger with your breathing you should get checked out to make sure you are ok outside of WD, perhaps check in with Dr H he may be able to reassure you some more.

Im pretty sure you are having WD issues, however as you have other health issues too they may interact with each other so please be safe won't you.

@Chippy I had a better sleep

Last night. Got 1:45 of deep sleep for a change. I think only because my Cpap worked better last night. That’s a fiasco all by itself. It disrupts my sleep along with WD. AND my sleep doctor I think has his head up his backside. Specialist!!! They can’t see beyond the sideboards of their specialty. I told him in WD from tapering an AD. It’s clear he has no understanding of how that relates to sleep deprivation.

15 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy I had a better sleep

Last night. Got 1:45 of deep sleep for a change. I think only because my Cpap worked better last night. That’s a fiasco all by itself. It disrupts my sleep along with WD. AND my sleep doctor I think has his head up his backside. Specialist!!! They can’t see beyond the sideboards of their specialty. I told him in WD from tapering an AD. It’s clear he has no understanding of how that relates to sleep deprivation.

Sounds good to me Pokey!

You are right these doctors, honestly, they seem to know so little. Think we were all a little spell bound before this. Probably how they get away with it.

Yes @Chippy im losing faith in most doctors. They can’t see beyond their specialty side boards. We humans are complicated beasts. Heart doctors don’t take into account that pain & poor sleep can affect your heart. My Sleep Doctor seems to ignore it when I tell him I’m tapering off an AD and I have a lot of night time back pain. He only wants to try & “fix it” with his tools. And I don’t think my sleep is solely disrupted due to WD. What I’m trying to say, obviously ineptly, is it’s complicated. I don’t think “fixing” one thing will fix everything.

I think I’m in the process of stabilizing. I fall asleep in 5 minutes. I’m able to get some deep sleep & REM. But I’m waking 1-3x at night in great discomfort. Pain centered in my low back, but my whole body hurts. I’m groggy like I’ve been wakened out of a coma. My heart rate & BP are elevated when checking immediately upon awakening though my O2 level is normal. But I feel the need to take some deep breaths which eases the pain. Pain alone will elevate BP and heart rate as well as cortisol levels and can cause some SOB. All I’m saying it’s hard to tell what’s causing what. I am a body out of sync. WD is certainly a factor, likely the major factor but not the sole factor of why I’m not sleeping well and waking in distress. Hope I’m making sense.

@Pokey449, have you asked the AI about this? It has a big reservoir of word information. Explain what exactly happens, sequence by sequence.

Svetla

I tried ChatGPT. Didn’t work. But I’m not sure how to ask what I need to ask.

Not Chat GPT, but Google. Write the doses of the both drugs you take and that you are waking 1-3 times at night with unwell feeling, with pain.

@skamen when I asked why am I waking up in pain & SOB when taking these two meds at the doses I am at, below is what it said. I asked Dr Horowitz some time back about suppressing respiratory drive & he claimed that wasn’t happening 🤔?? if below is correct I don’t know what can be done about it?? Can’t just quit one or the other. I may be terminal 😩☠️

“Waking up in pain and short of breath while taking mirtazapine and doxepin can stem from combined central nervous system or respiratory depression, severe nocturnal acid reflux, or an overlapping drug interaction. Both medications cause heavy sedation and muscle relaxation, which can dangerously worsen underlying conditions like sleep apnea or shallow breathing during the night”

Ask what is the solution...

@skamen Svetla I also think one needs to be very careful with what one asks AI and take some of what it says with a grain of salt. That said, I think what’s going on with me is more complicated or messy than just WD. By the same token my sleep doctor can’t seem to grasp that my sleep problems are likely affected by WD.

I’m afraid I’m in a complicated mess. And yes I really do think this mess may kill me in the end. It’s certainly wrecked my life.

@skamen you ask what’s the solution. I don’t know. I have a email/voice message session with Horowitz next week. I’m going to ask him if there is a solution.