@The Dust can I ask you stop this conversation in Pokeys thread please?

It’s not the place to have it.

Just now, Chippy said:

@The Dust can I ask you stop this conversation in Pokeys thread please?

It’s not the place to have it.

I'm very sorry! Sorry everyone! It happened spontaneously.

@Chippy thsnks. Yes I feel like the sleep medicine docs are like most specialties. They can’t integrate things outside their field of expertise into their analysis of what’s going on with you. In other words they don’t know how to think out of their box. However the Nurse Practitioner did say she told my sleep doc that I thought a lot of my sleep symptoms were related to the medication I was tapering off of. That’s an improvement at least. The NP asked how I wanted to proceed. Do I want to do yet another sleep study. I’m going to write her back in a thoughtful way and tell her I think we already have enough data to make some sort of educated decision of what to do next. I think another sleep study will be more of what we already know. And NO I’m willing to take Ambien so I can sleep in a lab. That the Ambien on top of the doxepin & miry could create the very thing we are looking for.

I think that’s the right move @Pokey449 you want some peace not more stress and drugs.

@Chippy >%#{>#%|£¥€#!!!!!! I can’t get 2 nights in a row of decent sleep. Thursday night I got 7+ hours. Last night 4.3 hours of fractured sleep. And I woke up feeling awful. I’m not sure what’s happening in my body. It’s not healthy whatever it is. I’m going to assume none of this surprises you, it’s the inconsistency of WD????? I just know I’m F’ing tired of it.

I’m increasingly more persuaded, despite what Dr H told me, is that the Doxepin in combo with the mirtazapine is messing with, in some unknown way, with my sleep and more likely my respiratory drive. It’s causing central apneas and highly fracturing my sleep Whatever it’s doing I’m increasingly not seeing a doorway out this hell hole and in time I’m going to wear out. Some critical function will collapse and I will die. I’m feeling hopeless today friends. 🫩

1 minute ago, Pokey449 said:

I’m increasingly more persuaded, despite what Dr H told me, is that the Doxepin in combo with the mirtazapine is messing with, in some unknown way, with my sleep and more likely my respiratory drive. It’s causing central apneas and highly fracturing my sleep Whatever it’s doing I’m increasingly not seeing a doorway out this hell hole and in time I’m going to wear out. Some critical function will collapse and I will die. I’m feeling hopeless today friends. 🫩

Oh Pokey im so sorry. I really think you should be with your family i think it'd help you loads. I understand you're not in the frame of mind for the move, though. I get that, totally.

I wish I could just wave my hand and make you - all of us - better. You dont deserve this, none of us do.

We're here for you ❤️ sending mind hugs 🫂

You'd be surprised how long we can go without a good sleep. As long as you get some rest even light, you won't collapse and die.

@Pokey449, I feel you very well. If this can help a little bit your despair, last night I had a broken sleep from 10 pm to 12, from 12:45 to 2::30 and that is. And every time I was awakened by the cortisol terror, awful dying feeling, terrible and Inhumane state, a real doom.

Logically thinking, for me, your situation is from the WD. If it was from the drug combination, how do you explain that you have already experienced a some relatively good nights? With the drug bad combination it would be a constant sleep deprivation. There are my thoughts.

Keep going, Pokey, we DON'T have ANY other choice, ANY... Only hope in the time.

Svetla

Thanks @skamen & @cherrysquid I am, as most of us here, so ungodly sick n tired of all this. It’s life robbing. I’m a prisoner in my own house.

19 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy >%#{>#%|£¥€#!!!!!! I can’t get 2 nights in a row of decent sleep. Thursday night I got 7+ hours. Last night 4.3 hours of fractured sleep. And I woke up feeling awful. I’m not sure what’s happening in my body.

Im sorry to read Pokey

19 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

I’m going to assume none of this surprises you, it’s the inconsistency of WD????? I just know I’m F’ing tired of it.

Unfortunately not mate. There is little way to know what is coming next, good day or bad day. Main thing as always it to learn to accept this rather than lean into the anger and frustration. It is the one thing you can control, how you react to it.

14 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

I’m increasingly more persuaded, despite what Dr H told me, is that the Doxepin in combo with the mirtazapine is messing with, in some unknown way, with my sleep and more likely my respiratory drive. It’s causing central apneas and highly fracturing my sleep Whatever it’s doing I’m increasingly not seeing a doorway out this hell hole and in time I’m going to wear out. Some critical function will collapse and I will die. I’m feeling hopeless today friends. 🫩

I know you worry about this, and I don't want to discourage you from getting the checks and help you need, I want you to be safe, however I strongly suspect this is just WD and drug interactions etc.... Our minds really struggle with not accepting and fixing things, looking for that lever to pull, there must be something else other than wait right? Mostly for most people this is just resisting and just causes more suffering than needed.

5 hours ago, Chippy said:

, however I strongly suspect this is just WD and drug interactions etc....

@Chippy drug interactions!! Precisely one of my concerns. If I’m having a bad interaction between the mirtazapine and doxepin, as opposed to just WD sxs the negative interaction will likely never go away no matter how long I hold at any dose. That does not bode well for getting down to an acceptable lower dose of doxepin and staying there the rest of my life as suggested by Dr H.

Got 6 hrs last night. Still zigging and zagging sleep wise. It’s sleeip that’s the primary issue for me. If I can ever get that mitigated I’ll be ok.

15 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy drug interactions!! Precisely one of my concerns. If I’m having a bad interaction between the mirtazapine and doxepin, as opposed to just WD sxs the negative interaction will likely never go away no matter how long I hold at any dose. That does not bode well for getting down to an acceptable lower dose of doxepin and staying there the rest of my life as suggested by Dr H.

Got 6 hrs last night. Still zigging and zagging sleep wise. It’s sleeip that’s the primary issue for me. If I can ever get that mitigated I’ll be ok.

Sorry Pokey. I didn’t mean you were having a serious interaction between the two drugs and as a slip of the keyboard.

Glad you slept a little better last night mate.

I hear you on the sleep. Us mirt users it’s a big part of this I think.

@Pokey449 What if you ask dr. H about quitting just one these two drugs, or at least about quick taper of one of them. Both of them are sedative antidepressiants (H1 blocking)? Still, it's hard to predict what could happen. Nobody can't predict this. But I heard people saying that "real" WD starts when they halt their last dose of any drug. Nicole Lamberson did mentioned this phenomena - some people on SSRI+benzodiazepin said quitting SSRI and and staying on benzodiazepin was helpful, other said just the opposite.

@The Dust my last conversation with Horowitz about this he suggested tapering the Doxepin to 25mg and stop there since doxepin gets more sedating the lower you go below 25. Then taper the mirtazapine down from 7.5 to 3.75. He claims mirtazapine is one of the most difficult to get off of. Currently I’m at 29.6mv Doxepin and have been there for months. Not sure when I can restart my doxepin taper. I think a “quick taper” of either is not likely a good thing to try.

Hi @Chippy well I had another crappy nights sleep. Woke up again in physical distress. Think my cpap was the culprit. Hard to tell what’s WD and what’s cpap related, back pain related and other causes of fractured sleep.. Can hardly function today, Don’t know how I can keep this up

@Pokey449, you are not alone. It is a misery for me also, 24/7. But we have to hold on, for our family, Pokey, and for our daughters. We are at the same length of time in our constant dose, you for your 2 poisons, and me - drug free...

Svetla

Edited August 10Aug 10 by skamen

@skamen i hear you Svetla but I think last night & today was up there with one of the worst nights/days. I couldn’t hardly stay awake today but could not sleep sleep either. I’ve got travel scheduled in 3 weeks. Been planned for some time but don’t know if I will make it or not. Having my doubts. I need to go be with my family but don’t want to be like this there. It’s pure HELL!!

Are you going to make your trip to Bulgaria??

15 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

Hi @Chippy well I had another crappy nights sleep. Woke up again in physical distress. Think my cpap was the culprit. Hard to tell what’s WD and what’s cpap related, back pain related and other causes of fractured sleep.. Can hardly function today, Don’t know how I can keep this up

Sorry to hear Pokey, feeling pretty tatty myself today, sucks doesn't it! One more day closer my friend, hang in there.

@Chippy my sleep seems more fractured than ever. There for a long while I’d wake up a couple times a night, toss and turn and go back to sleep. Lately I’m consistently waking in the wee hours and that’s it for the night. I still think it’s interdose WD playing a big part in boogering up my sleep.

It gets me to thinking again about moving my dose to later in the day to avoid having the dip in the wee hours. But I’m guessing you wouldn’t think that is a good idea?? And I understand your thinking. . Thing is if it is interdose WD occurring in the wee hours more time staying where I’m at won’t fix it I don’t think??? The dip will still happen no matter how long I hold where I’m at now. Ideally better to have the dip during the day. I’ll continue as is for now and see if my sleep will finally settle down

Oh, @Pokey449, I feel you very well. This Hell is endless...

My flight to Bulgaria is for September 2th. I don't know what to do, I am not able for the moment to endure the flight. All the night I am in terror with broken sleep, nightmare, sweats, heartbeats, and the day the depression and the inner akathisia kill me...

And you? Will you go in Ohio?

Svetla

@skamen Svetla. At this point I don’t know if I’ll make the trip to Ohio or not. My sleep is so erratic. I get a decent amount one night and think things are finally getting stabilized and the next night is terrible and I can barely function the next day. My psychologist says I need to decide WHAT I WANT TO DO. PLAN FOR IT and then if when the day comes & I can’t do it then so be it, cancel and take care of myself. But I can’t wait that close to a flight to decide. Gotta decide at least 24hrs ahead. I guess as of now I’ll hope for the best and plan on going and then if 24hrs in advance I’m exhausted and a basket case I’ll cancel. My flight is only 2 hours. Your flights on the other hand are long and across multiple time zones. And flights sometimes get delayed or cancelled. Listen to your intuition. Take care of yourself first and foremost.

18 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy my sleep seems more fractured than ever. There for a long while I’d wake up a couple times a night, toss and turn and go back to sleep. Lately I’m consistently waking in the wee hours and that’s it for the night. I still think it’s interdose WD playing a big part in boogering up my sleep.

It gets me to thinking again about moving my dose to later in the day to avoid having the dip in the wee hours. But I’m guessing you wouldn’t think that is a good idea?? And I understand your thinking. . Thing is if it is interdose WD occurring in the wee hours more time staying where I’m at won’t fix it I don’t think??? The dip will still happen no matter how long I hold where I’m at now. Ideally better to have the dip during the day. I’ll continue as is for now and see if my sleep will finally settle down

Hey @Pokey449 it is totally up to you. However you have moved your dose around in several ways and it has not helped. It might help in the this situation however I suspect this is more you looking for a solution which may make this worse and reset the clock on your hold. Just my thoughts my friend.

@Chippy I can’t disagree with your assessment. I’m very hesitant to say, but I think? the night time symptoms that I’ve been waking up with are improving. The Akathisia seems to have abated. I’ll exercise patience a while longer & hope things continue to improve 🤞🤞🤞🤞My sleep doc is coming up with some options that may help as well.

@Chippy Did you see the eclipse in your neck of the woods?? Total or partial?