I too hope that going back to a single dose will help. I’m running out of options. If I’m not able to stabilize after doing this there’d be nothing left to try. I can’t keep living like this. I won’t!!

2 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

I too hope that going back to a single dose will help. I’m running out of options. If I’m not able to stabilize after doing this there’d be nothing left to try. I can’t keep living like this. I won’t!!

Once you’ve moved the dose back give it some time for the full effect to settle down. Then further holding km sure will calm all this down for you. Like I said I know it can take some a long while to fully stabilise. Such a rollercoaster I know.

@Chippy Given as you say it can take a very long time to stabilize How do we know that I wouldn’t have finally stabilized doing the split dose approach? It seems this tapering stuff is so variable & iffy that even Horowitz can’t be 100% certain of what’s best/correct in all instances??

5 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy Given as you say it can take a very long time to stabilize How do we know that I wouldn’t have finally stabilized doing the split dose approach? It seems this tapering stuff is so variable & iffy that even Horowitz can’t be 100% certain of what’s best/correct in all instances??

It’s is very hard to know. Mark will be working off the idea you seemed to worsen. Maybe there is a half way house where the dose is split but the doubling is reduced. So midday or something for the second half.

It’s true moving anything can be destabilising.

There is so little research on all this that a lot of it is a bit trial and error.

Hi @Chippy I took yesterday off from posting here. Some days I just need to “let it be” to quote one of the UKs more famous musical groups 😁 I’m in the process of moving the 2nd 1/2 of my doxepin dose back towards the 1st 1/2. So today I’m taking doses at 8am & 130pm. Once I get to 12noon for the 2nd 1/2 dose I’m going to pause there for a while to see how it goes.

However I’m increasingly becoming convinced of what’s going at night is as @Sminismoni suggested sometime back. That my respiratory drive is being suppressed. I’m not waking gasping but I’m waking in great discomfort with the following sxs: pain throughout my body, feeling like I need to take some deep breaths to relieve the pain and malaise. Groggy with headache. So stiff I can hardly walk when I get up. My heart rate is up, though not exceedingly so. All very bizarre and troubling. This all happens when on CPAP and when I’m not using CPAP. It makes using CPAP more challenging as well.

All in all a bizarre set of sxs. Logic would say stop the assumed offending medication but as we know I can’t just stop it. So I’m coming to the conclusion this is the way it’s going to be until it hopefully stops happening OR it’s going to kill me. I’m having a formal in lab sleep study next week. Hopefully that will verify what’s going on.

3 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

Hi @Chippy I took yesterday off from posting here. Some days I just need to “let it be” to quote one of the UKs more famous musical groups 😁

Hey @Pokey449 i think I might not the ‘famous’ group you are speaking of 😂😂 they had a couple of hits didn’t they!

4 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

’m in the process of moving the 2nd 1/2 of my doxepin dose back towards the 1st 1/2. So today I’m taking doses at 8am & 130pm. Once I get to 12noon for the 2nd 1/2 dose I’m going to pause there for a while to see how it goes.

Sounds wise.

5 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

I’m having a formal in lab sleep study next week. Hopefully that will verify what’s going on

I hope this helps shed some light on the matter. Fingers crossed this will all settle down more soon.

@Chippy I’m increasingly convinced that I have an atypical or idiosyncratic situation going on at night in my sleep. I’m waking 2-3x a night in great distress. My breathing is off. I’m not gasping but taking deep breaths feels necessary. My heart rate is up a significant amount from my normal sleeping resting rate. I’m in a lot of whole body pain. All these symptoms wear off after a while. I fall back to sleep only to wake up later with the same collection of symptoms. I get up finally in the early a.m and again the sxs quickly go away.

Im pretty well convinced the respiratory center in my brain is being suppressed or not working as it should. I can recall back that these sxs have slowly come on and gotten more pronounced & frequent over time.

The thing is I don’t know what can be done about it? I think a CT off doxepin would kill me or I’d wish it would as it would be so F’ing miserable. That said I think this could be life threatening or wear me down so bad that something fails.

I’m doing an in lab sleep study next week and I’m going to que my sleep doc to pay special attention to all this. They will get read outs on my EEG, EKG and O2 saturation all of which should tell if I’m right or not. I really think is more than garden variety WD.

I really hope moving your dose back to once a day helps ❤️

Thanks @Finni Sounds like you’re not having much fun either. I’ve checked a few of your posts. How you doing with your taper? Did u figure out how to make your small cuts with the tablets or did you switch to a liquid form of mirtazapine??

45 minutes ago, Pokey449 said:

Thanks @Finni Sounds like you’re not having much fun either. I’ve checked a few of your posts. How you doing with your taper? Did u figure out how to make your small cuts with the tablets or did you switch to a liquid form of mirtazapine??

I’m weighing with a very accurate scale and finally realizing that the weight can be trusted ☺️

1 hour ago, Pokey449 said:

@Chippy I’m increasingly convinced that I have an atypical or idiosyncratic situation going on at night in my sleep. I’m waking 2-3x a night in great distress. My breathing is off. I’m not gasping but taking deep breaths feels necessary. My heart rate is up a significant amount from my normal sleeping resting rate. I’m in a lot of whole body pain. All these symptoms wear off after a while. I fall back to sleep only to wake up later with the same collection of symptoms. I get up finally in the early a.m and again the sxs quickly go away.

Im pretty well convinced the respiratory center in my brain is being suppressed or not working as it should. I can recall back that these sxs have slowly come on and gotten more pronounced & frequent over time.

The thing is I don’t know what can be done about it? I think a CT off doxepin would kill me or I’d wish it would as it would be so F’ing miserable. That said I think this could be life threatening or wear me down so bad that something fails.

I’m doing an in lab sleep study next week and I’m going to que my sleep doc to pay special attention to all this. They will get read outs on my EEG, EKG and O2 saturation all of which should tell if I’m right or not. I really think is more than garden variety WD.

Hey @Pokey449 , I am truly sorry to read you are still having issues, hopefully moving your dose backwards can help with this, I also hope the sleep study shares some light on something you find useful. We are so complex us humans, Im hoping in time things settle down for you.

Thanks @Chippy Unfortunately I feel like I’m slowly slipping down a hole. It takes all my energy just to take a walk or exert myself for simple tasks. Afraid something is going to give out and I’ll die.

But then I think here the same thing from others here. I just know I’m really really tired.

I know @Pokey449 i feel you mate. Takes it out of us this journey doesn’t it. One day at a time bud.

@Chippy I have a sleep study scheduled next week. I messaged my sleep doc about the troubles I've been having with sleep explaining my symptoms, that I was tapering doxepin and that my psych doc and I were perplexed about what was happening exactly in my sleep each night......so my sleep doc writes back thinking I had stopped my psych meds ( I never said that I had stopped) and that I should restart them?? and get my symptoms under control before the sleep study. Yeh, that's going to happen in a week!!!! As I further explained to him both me and my psych doc (Horowitz) are baffled about what's happening exactly in my sleep causing my perplexing sxs and that my sleep doc was pleased to hear I was having a sleep study in the hope it will help explain on what's going on waking me up every night 2-3X in agony . It will likely turn out to be a waste of time and effort but I was not going to let my sleep doc brush me off out of his lack of understanding & ignorance. I dont relish again trying to sleep in a sleep lab all hooked up to sensors like Im flying to the moon. Ive done so before & hate it. I have a hard time sleeping in a hotel but if it will give us any clues as to what's happening to me let alone the cause it will hopefully be helpful....................another bad night last night. I woke the 3rd time feeling sure whatever is happening its going to eventually kill me it feels so miserable and lethal :o( I just don't feel like I should travel to where my wife and kids are at until I get this under control. I dont want to carry it all to my daughters house as well as be away from my safety nets......its all so scary, hopeless at times and depressing!!!

Hey @Pokey449 how frustrating that your sleep doc isn’t up to speed with what has happened with your drugs doses. It’s not that hard to follow is it. I don’t know!

Anyways I empathise with you not wanting to sleep in a lab. I don’t fancy that one bit! I have to say I struggle to understand how these lab environments can ever be a true representation of your actual sleep! So clinical and most would find it hard to sleep in that environment you would think!

Hopefully it is helpful and yields some useful results all the same.

Sorry you had a bad night again. Feels endless sometimes I know only too well!

Same old S**t last night. Waking for the 3rd time at 6 I felt like I was going to implode with the pain & misery of it all. For some time I’ve been worried that whatever is happening is going to kill, which has evolved into I don’t care if it does to that it would be a blessing if I didn’t wake up some morning. No more misery. I’ve had 77 years, that’s more than a lot of good people get.

@Pokey449 I am sorry you had another poor nights sleep. Hang in there mate, I'm hoping better days are coming for you. Hope tonight is better.

Hi @Chippy ….,the horror & terror of it all 😱😱😱 This morning im feeling like I’m coming close to the end of my rope. I can’t get a half way restful nights sleep!!!! I continue to wake up in pain along with some version of Akathisia & other nagging symptoms. I lay in the dark in pain, feeling sick, scared & alone. I swear this is killing me. I’ve been contemplating scary solutions to it all.

I’ve been working with one of the world’s leading experts on de prescribing these terrible drugs and I’m still feeling miserable. First it was suggested I take my 2 half doses 12 hrs apart. I was working towards that but it wasn’t going well. Then we decided to move back towards taking a single full dose. I’ve been at it a week moving my afternoon 1/2 dose back towards my morning 1/2 dose and I’m not doing well. Im still a long ways from reaching where I need to be. I think I’m going to just hold for now for a while where I’m at.

I think the doxepin by itself, whatever it’s doing to me, perhaps in combo with the mirtazapine, is going to kill me. Either directly or indirectly from my body wearing out from all this. I’m quickly losing hope that I’m ever going to feel well again.

Hey @Pokey449 hang in the there mate. I know it’s rough. I wish it wasn’t. You’re not alone in the suffering as you know. Keep up the good fight bud.

I think pausing the move is a good idea for a bit. It may be once you settle on some timings and give it some time without shifting the dose things will be easier. Wish there were quick fixes to this. Time is our friend. Just how much time and learning to cope with the suffering in the mean time. Awful poisons.

@Chippy i looked back over the notes on my daily dosing log. When I was taking my doxepin as a full single dose at 8am I was recording more hours of sleep just about every night than I’ve been getting with two split doses. I was still having lots of back pain but that was before I started doing PT stretches every night for my back that has helped with that a lot. My last session with Horowitz last week he recommended returning to taking the doxepin as a single dose. I’ve been moving towards that goal by 30minutes each day. As of today I’m 5 hours or 10 days away at that rate. I don’t know if holding for a while where I am now, 1:00, will help. Again looking at my daily log Ive recorded a lot of miserable nights at just about every juncture while at 2 doses. Wondering if I shouldn’t just get back to a single morning dose as expeditiously as I can tolerate??

15 hours ago, Pokey449 said:

Wondering if I shouldn’t just get back to a single morning dose as expeditiously as I can tolerate??

I think there is no reason why not reading your notes, just pause if needs be for a few days, but I agree it sounds like un-splitting your dose could be the way to go. Lets hope this helps things.

Today I’ll have brought the 2nd 1/2 of my daily doxepin dose back to 12:30. Tomorrow will be 12 noon. I’ll pause there a few days before continuing on towards my goal of 8am when I take the first 1/2 dose.

I hope going back to a single dose recoups my sleep and eliminates some of my symptoms. If that doesn’t happen, if things don’t improve I don’t know what else I can do.

My night time symptoms have been getting progressively worse. My sleep has gotten more fractured and I’ve been at the same total daily dose for 96 days. I’m waking with very troubling & uncomfortable sxs. My sleep apnea has worsened as a result With what’s going on currently the sxs I’m having upon awakening in the night & morning I feel my health is at risk, perhaps my life.

If the doctors who reviewed my case knew what the hell they were doing they should have never prescribed me Doxepin. It’s a no no for people with a history of sleep apnea & AFib.Facts they didn’t catch/consider 😢☠️ I still haven’t given up on the possibility I’m having an ADR between the 2 drugs versus standard WD.

What a suffering, @Pokey449. Inhumane existence. You are not alone.

Svetla

Hi @skamen Svetla. Yes inhumane is an understatement. There’s lots of horror stories here of what these drugs do to people. I hope you’re getting some peace & comfort for a change.

Hey @Pokey449 I hope you got a better nights sleep last night. You certainly deserve it.