29 minutes ago, Marina said:

@Johan1233 Sorry to hear that! I hope we stop reacting that way soon. 🙏🏻 It's extra hard when we can't even have a fun distraction.

I hope so too @Marina. Sending hope 

Quote

Hey chippy. Sorry to bother you mate, I see you’re in the uk like myself so I guess our time zones align👍🏻. Just trying to make sense of things at the moment, I guess I’m overthinking everything I hope. I’ve just had the worst 3 days I can remember so far out from December when I went into WD again. I’m just worried I’m in poop out as my symptoms got gradually worse last week. Does poop out normally occur to people who have Been on the drug a long time? What signs would I look out for in poop out? I have small windows during the day, maybe 2-3 which last about an hour. Thanks mate 

Hey @Johan1233

 

Thanks for the message mate. Figured it was easier to put it back here to keep it all in one place.

 

No worries at all feel free to ask anything you want!

 

Tolerance (Poop out) I think is a difficult subject.

 

Two thoughts.

 

1. Our bodies gain tolerance to any drug the longer take it. So over time the effects/side effects of the drug will become weaker and we will need more of the drug to get the same effect. So this would be seen as, say you felt emotional numbing as a useful effect of the drug, and that lessened, and you found yourself wanting more, as you felt depressed again, and not as removed from your feelings as you would like. So here people ask the doctor for more drug, and it works and they get they effect want back. Eventually they hit a ceiling though and more drug stops helping. Classic tolerance IMO.

In this case I think they might start to see dose related symptoms just before they take the pill which are relieved when they take it, so interpose WD as a precursor.....

 

2. The brain gains dependant on the drug but also kind of rejects the drug at the same time! Its shown as WD symptoms. Im not 100% convinced but this. It's something Ive seen on SA a lot. Im not sure if what they are actually seeing is more like the body rejecting the drug or reacting to that dose level. I don't know if I think that is tolerance personally but Ive seen people very knowledgeable think it is.

 

Either way tolerance or ADR you would need to drop the dose to get relief.

 

Are you having one of these events? Well I think it's possible. You've been holding. You stabilised. You've got worse and are still worse. So yes I think it's totally possible.

 

Im also a huge fan of stability. Tapering whilst in WD isn't a nice option for anyone IMO!

 

You identified the 'bad' batch of Lexapro, if that was the cause maybe you will stabilise again soon. That would be better!

 

If it's not that then tapering off would be the way to go.

 

Best way to do this IMO would be to try a small drop (2.5%) and see if you react well to it. If it's manageable try that again a week later and repeat until you've made 4 x 2.5% drops. Then hold. So Brass Monkey Slide. Let the WD symptoms catch up for 2 weeks and repeat the process. Basically trying to out run the Tolerance/ADR whilst an effort to minimise the WD symptoms is made. You could do this slower (1.25% drops or something) but IMO the whole purpose of this would be to get some drug load down quickly, to start to feel the benefit and out run the problem, and this is unlikely to be comfortable as you can imagine.

 

Hope that makes sense mate and helps some.

 

Chippy 

 

16 minutes ago, Chippy said:

Hey @Johan1233

 

Thanks for the message mate. Figured it was easier to put it back here to keep it all in one place.

 

No worries at all feel free to ask anything you want!

 

Tolerance (Poop out) I think is a difficult subject.

 

Two thoughts.

 

1. Our bodies gain tolerance to any drug the longer take it. So over time the effects/side effects of the drug will become weaker and we will need more of the drug to get the same effect. So this would be seen as, say you felt emotional numbing as a useful effect of the drug, and that lessened, and you found yourself wanting more, as you felt depressed again, and not as removed from your feelings as you would like. So here people ask the doctor for more drug, and it works and they get they effect want back. Eventually they hit a ceiling though and more drug stops helping. Classic tolerance IMO.

In this case I think they might start to see dose related symptoms just before they take the pill which are relieved when they take it, so interpose WD as a precursor.....

 

2. The brain gains dependant on the drug but also kind of rejects the drug at the same time! Its shown as WD symptoms. Im not 100% convinced but this. It's something Ive seen on SA a lot. Im not sure if what they are actually seeing is more like the body rejecting the drug or reacting to that dose level. I don't know if I think that is tolerance personally but Ive seen people very knowledgeable think it is.

 

Either way tolerance or ADR you would need to drop the dose to get relief.

 

Are you having one of these events? Well I think it's possible. You've been holding. You stabilised. You've got worse and are still worse. So yes I think it's totally possible.

 

Im also a huge fan of stability. Tapering whilst in WD isn't a nice option for anyone IMO!

 

You identified the 'bad' batch of Lexapro, if that was the cause maybe you will stabilise again soon. That would be better!

 

If it's not that then tapering off would be the way to go.

 

Best way to do this IMO would be to try a small drop (2.5%) and see if you react well to it. If it's manageable try that again a week later and repeat until you've made 4 x 2.5% drops. Then hold. So Brass Monkey Slide. Let the WD symptoms catch up for 2 weeks and repeat the process. Basically trying to out run the Tolerance/ADR whilst an effort to minimise the WD symptoms is made. You could do this slower (1.25% drops or something) but IMO the whole purpose of this would be to get some drug load down quickly, to start to feel the benefit and out run the problem, and this is unlikely to be comfortable as you can imagine.

 

Hope that makes sense mate and helps some.

 

Chippy 

 

Thanks @Chippy I’m definitely in WD for sure since December, my symptoms got better from about late January-mid February and now they have gotten worse. But I would say the 3 bad days I’ve had have been mostly the same with the same symptoms. 
 

Im hoping it’s just delayed peak WD symptoms but I’m terrified of poop out and it constantly on my mind. And I’m scared to do a drop incase it isn’t tolerance and I make Myself worse

 

J

33 minutes ago, Chippy said:

Hey @Johan1233

 

Thanks for the message mate. Figured it was easier to put it back here to keep it all in one place.

 

No worries at all feel free to ask anything you want!

 

Tolerance (Poop out) I think is a difficult subject.

 

Two thoughts.

 

1. Our bodies gain tolerance to any drug the longer take it. So over time the effects/side effects of the drug will become weaker and we will need more of the drug to get the same effect. So this would be seen as, say you felt emotional numbing as a useful effect of the drug, and that lessened, and you found yourself wanting more, as you felt depressed again, and not as removed from your feelings as you would like. So here people ask the doctor for more drug, and it works and they get they effect want back. Eventually they hit a ceiling though and more drug stops helping. Classic tolerance IMO.

In this case I think they might start to see dose related symptoms just before they take the pill which are relieved when they take it, so interpose WD as a precursor.....

 

2. The brain gains dependant on the drug but also kind of rejects the drug at the same time! Its shown as WD symptoms. Im not 100% convinced but this. It's something Ive seen on SA a lot. Im not sure if what they are actually seeing is more like the body rejecting the drug or reacting to that dose level. I don't know if I think that is tolerance personally but Ive seen people very knowledgeable think it is.

 

Either way tolerance or ADR you would need to drop the dose to get relief.

 

Are you having one of these events? Well I think it's possible. You've been holding. You stabilised. You've got worse and are still worse. So yes I think it's totally possible.

 

Im also a huge fan of stability. Tapering whilst in WD isn't a nice option for anyone IMO!

 

You identified the 'bad' batch of Lexapro, if that was the cause maybe you will stabilise again soon. That would be better!

 

If it's not that then tapering off would be the way to go.

 

Best way to do this IMO would be to try a small drop (2.5%) and see if you react well to it. If it's manageable try that again a week later and repeat until you've made 4 x 2.5% drops. Then hold. So Brass Monkey Slide. Let the WD symptoms catch up for 2 weeks and repeat the process. Basically trying to out run the Tolerance/ADR whilst an effort to minimise the WD symptoms is made. You could do this slower (1.25% drops or something) but IMO the whole purpose of this would be to get some drug load down quickly, to start to feel the benefit and out run the problem, and this is unlikely to be comfortable as you can imagine.

 

Hope that makes sense mate and helps some.

 

Chippy 

 

Perhaps If I leave it for a week and see how I feel? If I don’t feel and worse then I can potentially rule out tolerance?

2 minutes ago, Johan1233 said:

Perhaps If I leave it for a week and see how I feel? If I don’t feel and worse then I can potentially rule out tolerance?

I think you have shown signs of feeling better, this is good. It's always good to be cautious and calculative IMO.

 

So yes 100% hold for a bit and see what happens. Try not be worried about tolerance. I think lot think they have it and most don't. As I said Im not convinced by option 2 above ATM. I think if anything its more they have developed an irritation to the drug but even then Im not sure most who think this, aren't just needing a massive hold and are getting inpatient. When you see how long some have held for in the past to get stable.....

 

 

1 hour ago, Chippy said:

I think you have shown signs of feeling better, this is good. It's always good to be cautious and calculative IMO.

 

So yes 100% hold for a bit and see what happens. Try not be worried about tolerance. I think lot think they have it and most don't. As I said Im not convinced by option 2 above ATM. I think if anything its more they have developed an irritation to the drug but even then Im not sure most who think this, aren't just needing a massive hold and are getting inpatient. When you see how long some have held for in the past to get stable.....

 

 

Thanks @Chippy that’s put my mind at rest a bit👍🏻. If I remember correctly during my February 2025 WD the worst symptoms hit at around the 6-7week mark and I’m about 8-9weeks in on the WD episode 

@Johan1233 give it time...we all seem to get in our head about poop out....but the reality is it is doable and I think we always make it a worse case scenario because the information is lacking. People on benzos go through poop out/tolerance all the time. It seems to be pretty standard and they work through it. 

This still may be fall out from the bad batch. I know I am still dealing with the effects of that. 

@Chippyhas given some great advice and observations. Especially this:

7 hours ago, Chippy said:

. Try not be worried about tolerance. I think lot think they have it and most don't

❤️🙏

Edited March 2Mar 2 by LostinCanada

On 3/2/2026 at 4:05 PM, LostinCanada said:

@Johan1233 give it time...we all seem to get in our head about poop out....but the reality is it is doable and I think we always make it a worse case scenario because the information is lacking. People on benzos go through poop out/tolerance all the time. It seems to be pretty standard and they work through it. 

This still may be fall out from the bad batch. I know I am still dealing with the effects of that. 

@Chippyhas given some great advice and observations. Especially this:

❤️🙏

Thanks so much LIC for the message. I have felt ‘better’ these last few days so fingers crossed it was just a nasty wave. Hope you’re ok 

Hey @LostinCanada@Chippy. Just a situation update. I’ve been gradually feeing better these last few weeks and the last 5 days have been a good 6-7/10. I did a b12 test earlier this week as I was having typical symptoms(tingling feet and hands, brain fog and fatigue. The test came back low, well below the reference range so I booked a b12 injection yesterday evening. 3 hours after the injection I started feeling weird and I didn’t sleep much last night as symptoms were too much. These last few hours symptoms have been awful. Panic, anxiety, fear, dpd, crying. Have any of you had this before and when I can expect symptoms to settle? I believe  b12 peaks 24-48 hours after injection. Thank you both 

Just now, Johan1233 said:

Hey @LostinCanada@Chippy. Just a situation update. I’ve been gradually feeing better these last few weeks and the last 5 days have been a good 6-7/10. I did a b12 test earlier this week as I was having typical symptoms(tingling feet and hands, brain fog and fatigue. The test came back low, well below the reference range so I booked a b12 injection yesterday evening. 3 hours after the injection I started feeling weird and I didn’t sleep much last night as symptoms were too much. These last few hours symptoms have been awful. Panic, anxiety, fear, dpd, crying. Have any of you had this before and when I can expect symptoms to settle? I believe  b12 peaks 24-48 hours after injection. Thank you both 

Just for some context I had an injection back in November of last year. But I was stable then

11 minutes ago, Johan1233 said:

I booked a b12 injection yesterday evening

It is always better to ask about things like this first...it is easier to avoid a problem then to undo it. I know some who it has taken over a month to stabilize after a B12 shot. It is a very activating vitamin and needs to be slowly introduced and increased.

Many of us are low in this vitamin, myself included.... even taking the recommended daily dose for me, can be activating. 

All you can do now is wait it out.

Try to increase B12 naturally thought food choices and if you wish to take a supplement once you settle, start way below the recommended daily amount and increase slowly... every 4-7 days.

 

22 minutes ago, LostinCanada said:

It is always better to ask about things like this first...it is easier to avoid a problem then to undo it. I know some who it has taken over a month to stabilize after a B12 shot. It is a very activating vitamin and needs to be slowly introduced and increased.

Many of us are low in this vitamin, myself included.... even taking the recommended daily dose for me, can be activating. 

All you can do now is wait it out.

Try to increase B12 naturally thought food choices and if you wish to take a supplement once you settle, start way below the recommended daily amount and increase slowly... every 4-7 days.

 

I feel so stupid.. I read about permanent nerve damage related to low vitamin b12 and I think I panicked. I suspect it is low due to my omeprazole. Thanks @LostinCanada I guess I’ll just have to ride it out like you say 

1 minute ago, Johan1233 said:

I panicked

It's hard not to...it sucks when you get in your head about this stuff...it helps to take the time to post before reacting. Maybe you will level out quickly... let's hope. ❤️🙏

 

Vitamin B12-rich foods primarily include animal products like beef liver, clams, fish (salmon, sardines, tuna), meat, eggs, and dairy products. For vegetarians and vegans, fortified foods such as nutritional yeast, breakfast cereals, soy products, and plant milks are essential sources. 

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

 +5

Top Vitamin B12 Food Sources:

Organ Meats: Beef liver is one of the most concentrated sources.

Shellfish: Clams and oysters are extremely high in B12.

Fish: Salmon, sardines, tuna, and trout are excellent sources.

Meat & Poultry: Beef, chicken, and turkey.

Dairy Products: Milk, yogurt, and cheese.

Eggs: A reliable source.

Fortified Foods: Nutritional yeast, breakfast cereals, plant-based milks, and soy products are crucial for vegans. 

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

 +9

Key Takeaways:

Animal-Based: Natural B12 is found almost exclusively in animal products.

Fortification: People not consuming animal products should focus on fortified foods or supplements.

Bioavailability: The body absorbs B12 better from some foods than others, but fortified foods provide high bioavailability

44 minutes ago, LostinCanada said:

It's hard not to...it sucks when you get in your head about this stuff...it helps to take the time to post before reacting. Maybe you will level out quickly... let's hope. ❤️🙏

 

Vitamin B12-rich foods primarily include animal products like beef liver, clams, fish (salmon, sardines, tuna), meat, eggs, and dairy products. For vegetarians and vegans, fortified foods such as nutritional yeast, breakfast cereals, soy products, and plant milks are essential sources. 

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

 +5

Top Vitamin B12 Food Sources:

Organ Meats: Beef liver is one of the most concentrated sources.

Shellfish: Clams and oysters are extremely high in B12.

Fish: Salmon, sardines, tuna, and trout are excellent sources.

Meat & Poultry: Beef, chicken, and turkey.

Dairy Products: Milk, yogurt, and cheese.

Eggs: A reliable source.

Fortified Foods: Nutritional yeast, breakfast cereals, plant-based milks, and soy products are crucial for vegans. 

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

National Institutes of Health (.gov)

 +9

Key Takeaways:

Animal-Based: Natural B12 is found almost exclusively in animal products.

Fortification: People not consuming animal products should focus on fortified foods or supplements.

Bioavailability: The body absorbs B12 better from some foods than others, but fortified foods provide high bioavailability

Thank you @LostinCanada

Hey @LostinCanada so I think I’m back to how I was pre injection, thank goodness. Going forward regarding b12 supplementation I was thinking of going the liquid route using an insulin syringe for measuring. The lowest concentration I can find online is 3,000mcg per 1ml solution. I can go as low as 30mcg using a syringe so maybe start there? What are your thoughts

The daily requirements for B12 is, according to AI, 2.4 mcg.

This is available in the States and is very easy to slowly increase...one full dropper is 1000mcg so you can start with drop and go from there. This formulation is easy on the body but always do your own research to make sure and feel confident.

Adenosyl/Hydroxy B12 liquid 30 ml | Pure Encapsulations https://share.google/9ksNcsO0eL0YZCIea

 

 

Again AI

Why This Combination is Often Preferred

Taking a blend of these "natural" forms is frequently cited as more effective than the common synthetic version, cyanocobalamin, for several reasons: 

Active vs. Synthetic: Adenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin are the two "active" forms your body actually uses. Synthetic cyanocobalamin must first be converted by your body into these active forms, a process that can be inefficient for some people.

Mitochondrial Support: Adenosylcobalamin is the primary form used inside your mitochondria (the cell's "powerhouses") to produce energy. Most standard supplements only focus on the methyl form, which works primarily in the blood and nerves.

Longer Retention: Hydroxocobalamin is a natural precursor that the body can convert into either of the two active forms as needed. It is known for staying in the body longer than other forms, which is why it is the "gold standard" for B12 injections in many countries.

Sensitivity & Detox: Hydroxocobalamin helps the body "scavenge" or detoxify substances like nitric oxide and cyanide (it is even used as a medical antidote for cyanide poisoning). It is also a popular alternative for people who feel anxious or "over-stimulated" when taking methylcobalamin. 

Seeking Health

Seeking Health

 +8

Hi @LostinCanada @Chippy . I’m really at about loose end. I had a 5 day window about two weeks ago. Then 10

Days of feeling rough with a few good days in between. But since Sunday I’ve have unbearable akenthia 24/7 and muscle tension which seems to be getting worse. I’ve never had it this bad I can hardly sit still. I don’t know what to do. Is it normal for this to happen out of know where

16 minutes ago, Johan1233 said:

. Is it normal for this to happen out of know where

I have seen symptoms show up out is nowhere.

It seems like you are in a wave pattern at present... hopefully this symptom will resolve soon. Try to keep as calm and as accepting as possible.

Have you started up the allergy meds again recently? Anything different?

Thanks for the reply @LostinCanada

I haven’t added any extra medication. I’m very reluctant to do that!

It just seems crazy as it feels worse than it did at the very start. Trying to float

8 minutes ago, Johan1233 said:

Trying to float

Good for you... minute by minute some times. ❤️🙏

How are you doing nowadays @LostinCanada ?

1 hour ago, Johan1233 said:

How are you doing nowadays @LostinCanada ?

Struggling, trying not to think to deeply about the why's and just trying to accept it. ❤️🙏

Hi @Johan1233 i just came across one of your posts and noticed you too are tapering Escitalopram. I can’t tell what your current dosage is. I’m on 1.010mg and only able to change by micrograms at the moment. So far in 2026 I’ve only been able to drop by about 20mcg but recently it’s been only 2mcg and I’ve had to updose and I’m now going to hold for several months to let things settle. Wondering how things are going for you?

4 hours ago, Johan1233 said:

Hi @LostinCanada @Chippy . I’m really at about loose end. I had a 5 day window about two weeks ago. Then 10

Days of feeling rough with a few good days in between. But since Sunday I’ve have unbearable akenthia 24/7 and muscle tension which seems to be getting worse. I’ve never had it this bad I can hardly sit still. I don’t know what to do. Is it normal for this to happen out of know where

What medication/supplements are you taking as of right now? The up and down shift of your symptoms and overall self is a good sign, means you’re experiencing waves and windows.

As someone who had been experiencing akathisia again very late into protracted withdrawal I figured out it was my blood pressure medication causing it, since stopping the akathisia and side effects pertaining to it have gone away. For some of us, adding something we deem as a low risk drug can cause things within our brains and nervous systems to spike. HBP medication works on certain receptors, and akathisia usually comes from down regulated receptors. I’ve had akathisia bouts just from taking things like magnesium glycerinate, and melatonin. I’m close to 3 years into withdrawal.

Your symptoms pertaining to a supposed B12 deficiency are probably just withdrawal related/nervous system dysregulation. Try not to fall into the trap of going down rabbit holes for the sake of it because it’s easy to dwell on an alarming symptom coming from something more serious than it actually is. I’ve done this all throughout my withdrawal, and I’ve had well over 100+ symptoms, I still live with about 30+ that show up on a daily basis. I too have wondered B12 injections, supplementation but my levels seem fine on any bloodwork I’ve had and even if you’re on the low end, it doesn’t mean that’s where your symptoms are definitely coming from. If your doctor isn’t worried, I don’t think you should be as well. If you need the injections however then I’d weigh up whether the possible spike in symptoms and dysregulation are worth it to stabilise your level.

One thing I always continue telling myself is that; if a symptom seems way too mysterious, way too bizarre to be happening and everything you look up about it points to rare, complex diseases or neurological conditions or illnesses, then rest assured it’s 95% most likely coming from your nervous system being sensitive, dysregulated due to withdrawal, that’s it. The rabbit holes, the spiralling only further stress one out, and keeps the nervous system locked into fight-or-flight and healing is going to take longer when a nervous system still feels unsafe, and every symptom is classified as danger.

Things are going to take time, healing will occur, recovery will happen but how long is anyone’s guess. Stay patient, and any and all medications should be discontinued as soon as possible, I’m a firm believer everyone should be off all of it, if there’s even just one dodgy supplement or medication that’s still in the loop, get rid of it. A natural and normal baseline is the best for the brain and nervous system to recalibrate and return to homeostasis.

Thanks @Jack I got a lot out of your response to @Johan1233. Very succinct. It often pays to subtract than add depending on the context.