21 hours ago, LostinCanada said:

Symptoms settling down can take weeks to months and that is without adding other drugs and staying on a consistent accurate dose.

It’s easier to prevent an issue than to undo it unfortunately.

All of us have learned the hard way…we listened to the doctors who never told us the reality of what these drugs do. ❤️🙏

The good news is, getting off is doable.

I can relate to that. I can imagine that you are going through really hard times. During my own taper of Celexa, at some moments there was no way going back or continuing the taper. I just had to stay at a certain dose. Your body can be very irritated to dose changes. The only way for me to continue the taper successfully during that time was pausing. At least for six weeks. Sometimes I even stayed for five months at the same dose, just to be sure. This will help you to stabilize.

What helped me during this time was a diary, a WD diary only for WD. I wrote down the symptoms. When I wrote a lot of diary I was in a bad period, when the symptoms improved I hardly wrote and could focus more on my daily stuff. Sometimes I just briefly and quickly wrote down the successes in a summary, just to remember that are improvements after hard WD times. Writing it down can also feel like writing it of your chest. It can help. It can be a relief. You will stabilize.

@AlmostOff @Chippy @LostinCanada

I don’t even have the right stuff to taper the benzo.. can I just go .25 for a couple days then just stop them.. I don’t think they are helping me stabilize tbh..

and just hold lexapro 2.5mg and wait

7 hours ago, Glimmery said:

I can relate to that. I can imagine that you are going through really hard times. During my own taper of Celexa, at some moments there was no way going back or continuing the taper. I just had to stay at a certain dose. Your body can be very irritated to dose changes. The only way for me to continue the taper successfully during that time was pausing. At least for six weeks. Sometimes I even stayed for five months at the same dose, just to be sure. This will help you to stabilize.

What helped me during this time was a diary, a WD diary only for WD. I wrote down the symptoms. When I wrote a lot of diary I was in a bad period, when the symptoms improved I hardly wrote and could focus more on my daily stuff. Sometimes I just briefly and quickly wrote down the successes in a summary, just to remember that are improvements after hard WD times. Writing it down can also feel like writing it of your chest. It can help. It can be a relief. You will stabilize.

Hello Rekonum,

this is an addition to my previous post in your thread: Because the introduction of the post is missing 😅and I can not edit it anymore.

I just wanted to say hello before and chime in..... hope you will do better soon

here is a suggestion for a water taper of benzos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whpciMUXHfY

take care :)

8 hours ago, Rekonum said:

@AlmostOff @Chippy @LostinCanada

I don’t even have the right stuff to taper the benzo.. can I just go .25 for a couple days then just stop them.. I don’t think they are helping me stabilize tbh..

and just hold lexapro 2.5mg and wait

This is your choice and there are ways to taper the benzos, you are not limited in anyway it doesn't take much kit. Even just some kitchen scales can be enough. I think at this point I would make less changes and just hold tight for a bit and let things start to settle then taper off the Benzo.

@Chippy i dont see the benefit in slow tapering benzos if I’ve only been on klonopin 3 weeks.. I feel like slow tapering is just prolonging how long I’ll be on them.. klonopin isn’t helping anyways

1 hour ago, Rekonum said:

@Chippy i dont see the benefit in slow tapering benzos if I’ve only been on klonopin 3 weeks.. I feel like slow tapering is just prolonging how long I’ll be on them.. klonopin isn’t helping anyways

It is always your choice whether to accept the suggestions.

1 hour ago, Rekonum said:

@Chippy i dont see the benefit in slow tapering benzos if I’ve only been on klonopin 3 weeks.. I feel like slow tapering is just prolonging how long I’ll be on them.. klonopin isn’t helping anyways

There’s always a chance that your body hasn’t reached dependence, but it’s so hard to tell!

This is not a sure sign, but I’m curious if you start getting signals from your body when it’s time for klonopin dose?

@Finni @Chippy @LostinCanada

responding to Finni

Yes I’m worse at night around dose time and progressively worse after taking my doses but it’s still all day this next day lingering..

That’s why I’ve kind of had that “f it” mentality with the meds but trying to stay the course..

It’s very hard not to just CT them and see what happens given I’m not better

I have a GI doctor appointment and primary care doctor follow up appointment tmr.. I guess we shall see how those go..

I’m still convinced some of what I’m feeling isn’t anxiety related, but blood work, EKG, echocardiogram, chest xray, and ct scan were fine

I think my primary is going over the heart monitor I wore in this visit and maybe doing stress test

4 hours ago, Rekonum said:

That’s why I’ve kind of had that “f it” mentality with the meds but trying to stay the course..

Trust me when I say, you need to let this kind of mindset rule your decision making process. CTing a drug you are dependent on can cause lots of issues and things can be far worse than they are now, hard to believe but it is true.

4 hours ago, Rekonum said:

I have a GI doctor appointment and primary care doctor follow up appointment tmr.. I guess we shall see how those go..

Let us know how that goes, please be careful there though. No more drugs or shifts, they may likley suggest it.

4 hours ago, Rekonum said:

I’m still convinced some of what I’m feeling isn’t anxiety related, but blood work, EKG, echocardiogram, chest xray, and ct scan were fine

You are concerned, this is fair, but the tests have come back clear, and the brutal reality is you are in WD.

4 hours ago, Rekonum said:

I think my primary is going over the heart monitor I wore in this visit and maybe doing stress test

You are in the fix chasing phase, caution. This is where more unnecessary harm is done.

Acceptance, time and slow careful tapering from a place of stablity is your goal now.

8 hours ago, Rekonum said:

@Finni @Chippy @LostinCanada

responding to Finni

Yes I’m worse at night around dose time and progressively worse after taking my doses but it’s still all day this next day lingering..

That’s why I’ve kind of had that “f it” mentality with the meds but trying to stay the course..

It’s very hard not to just CT them and see what happens given I’m not better

I have a GI doctor appointment and primary care doctor follow up appointment tmr.. I guess we shall see how those go..

I’m still convinced some of what I’m feeling isn’t anxiety related, but blood work, EKG, echocardiogram, chest xray, and ct scan were fine

I think my primary is going over the heart monitor I wore in this visit and maybe doing stress test

Yeah, it’s probably not anxiety. It’s most likely withdrawal. Your body is responding and adapting to medication and medication changes. Believe me when I say that your body can do the strangest things!! and please believe me that it can get much much worse.

I would love to just stop the medication I’m on right now, but I’ve learned horribly hard lessons.

I wish I could say that you’re not dependent on klonopin, but I just don’t know. Have you gone to benzo buddies forum?

8 hours ago, Rekonum said:

It’s very hard not to just CT them and see what happens given I’m not better

I wish it was that easy with those drugs, if it was, these forums wouldn't exist, in reality you are most likely to meet with an insane withdrawal that is far more miserable.

We will make it out in time ❣️❣️❣️

@Lighty @Finni @Chippy

Why would I be in withdrawal if this all started at reinstatement and why hasnt the chest tightness, body aching constantly, body zaps, etc dampened in the slightest

btw i dropped to 0.25mg on klonopin 2 days ago.. it wasn’t doing anything

Edited September 15Sep 15 by Rekonum

1 minute ago, Rekonum said:

Why would I be in withdrawal if this all started at reinstatement and why hasnt the chest tightness, body aching constantly, body zaps, etc dampened in the slightest

cause WD is basically a dysregulated nervous system, all the jumps with the doses just irritates it further and makes it less stabilized in a way, so you went up and down, the nervous system still reacts to that.

3 minutes ago, Rekonum said:

btw i dropped to 0.25mg on klonopin 2 says ago.. it wasn’t doing anything

did you notice any symptoms after that drop ? did you take your klonopin daily for a while before that drop ? might have been a bit big of a drop.

@Lighty I’ve taken klonopin for 3 weeks total and only a week and a half consistently.. idk how that would do anything

and not really a change..I feel like **** which I’ve been feeling like the entire time

@Lighty Actually yes.. my chest is tighter and more consistently today so probably the klonopin drop

1 hour ago, Rekonum said:

@Lighty Actually yes.. my chest is tighter and more consistently today so probably the klonopin drop

One of the problems is it is very hard to tell what is what when making changes whilst destabilised. Your body is going to be desperate at this point for some consistency.

I agree most of this is Lexapro. Hopefully this lower dose will help you. However the amount of time you’ve been on a benzo it’s possible you are dependent. If you choose to reduce or stop the benzo that is a choice you have to make for yourself.

Also trying to tell how things are going hour by hour is impossible. Symptoms can fluctuate without making changes let alone with.

@Chippy why would i stay at 2.5mg on lexapro if it hasnt fixed my chest tightness yet? do yall still think it’s too high a dose?

I didn’t want to be stuck on klonopin so that was kind of a call I made… I’m just terrified of benzos

I’d say it’s the lexapro anyways considering I was dealing with it before they put me on xanax/klonopin

Edited September 15Sep 15 by Rekonum

@Rekonum is your gut instinct telling you its activation from lexapro or withdrawal?

1 hour ago, Rekonum said:

@Chippy why would i stay at 2.5mg on lexapro if it hasnt fixed my chest tightness yet? do yall still think it’s too high a dose?

I didn’t want to be stuck on klonopin so that was kind of a call I made… I’m just terrified of benzos

I’d say it’s the lexapro anyways considering I was dealing with it before they put me on xanax/klonopin

@Rekonum you have not been down to 2.5 mg of the lexapro for very long at all. It can take quite a while for things to settle down after everything you've been through and all the changes you made. This process requires a lot of patience, but it's really important to give your nervous system some stability now. Time is the healer.

@Steve1 probably activation but i dont it to be a guessing game ya know

@SarahMc yeah I understand.. I’m at primary doctor rn about to probably be suggested to switch from lexapro but we shall see.. I’ll let yall know

@Chippy @SarahMc @Lighty @LostinCanada @AlmostOff

Followed up with primary care today.. He’s thinks I’m twinkling in the ocean with the doses I’m on (basically they do nothing), but he said stay where I’m at and he ordered an echocardiogram and he said he’s going to run me and do a stress test as well, just so I can have that closure it’s not my heart even though I have chest tightness 24/7… then he said after that he will try to see if there’s changes to be made to address chest tightness..

Why do no doctors think 2.5mg and low doses do anything? Why do they think switching is going to help? I am kind of stuck in between believing doctors and believing what yall say.. I don’t mean that in a bad way it’s just hard.. I have looked online and seen hyperbolic curves on lexapro and how occupancy works, but why don’t they prescribe low low doses at CVS or main pharmacies… is it because these issues I’m having with withdrawal/kindling/activation are rare and they don’t know about it really or take it seriously? I’m just lost with all this psychiatric med stuff haha

Also the GI doc wants me to try Protonix for a month just to see if it’s some reflux irritation going on.. is it worth a try or do you guys think even these kind of meds are destabilizing?

Edited September 15Sep 15 by Rekonum

2 minutes ago, Rekonum said:

@Chippy @SarahMc @Lighty @LostinCanada @AlmostOff

Followed up with primary care today.. He’s thinks I’m twinkling in the ocean with the doses I’m on (basically they do nothing), but he said stay where I’m at and he ordered an echocardiogram and he said he’s going to run me and do a stress test as well, just so I can have that closure it’s not my heart even though I have chest tightness 24/7… then he said after that he will try to see if there’s changes to be made to address chest tightness..

Why do no doctors think 2.5mg and low doses do anything? Why do they think switching is going to help? I am kind of stuck in between believing doctors and believing what yall say.. I don’t mean that in a bad way it’s just hard.. I have looked online and seen hyperbolic curves on lexapro and how occupancy works, but why don’t they prescribe low low doses at CVS or main pharmacies… is it because these issues I’m having with withdrawal/kindling/activation are rare and they don’t know about it really or take it seriously? I’m just lost with all this psychiatric med stuff haha

It's because Big Pharma is big business...it wants profit, it does the testing and makes the rules, then "educated" the doctors. Big Pharma wants you dependent so their cash flow doesn't dry up. They hide evidence when testing fails, they fudge the numbers. It's what law suits are all about. They factor those losses into the gains.

Doctors get kick backs from Big Pharma. It's a corrupt system. These facts are out there...you just have to know what to look for.

AI:

Yes, pharmaceutical companies have documented histories of skewing or biasing drug testing and reporting. While regulatory bodies like the FDA or Health Canada oversee drug approvals, the systems used to test and report data contain structural vulnerabilities that favor positive outcomes. [1] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03ICf_vh80&t=94)How Bias Happens in Drug TrialsPublication Bias: Companies are far more likely to publish trials showing positive results than those showing negative or neutral effects. Unfavorable data is often left unpublished, hidden in internal files, or kept off public registries, creating an inflated sense of a drug's effectiveness. [1] (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3635613/)Selective Trial Design: Drug makers design the parameters of their own clinical trials. They can choose to test medications on younger, healthier populations even if the final users will be older, sicker individuals on multiple medications, which hides potential side effects and real-world complications. [1] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ_cksGE1QI)Comparator Selection: Instead of comparing a new drug to the best existing treatment, companies sometimes test it against a placebo or an intentionally low, ineffective dose of an older drug to make their product look superior.Statistical Spin: Researchers may emphasize relative risk reduction (e.g., "reduces risk by 50%") instead of absolute benefit (e.g., "drops risk from 2% to 1%") to make marginal improvements sound monumental

Edited September 15Sep 15 by LostinCanada

@Rekonum all we can do is give you the information we have, ultimately you are going to have come to a decision yourself.

38 minutes ago, Rekonum said:

Why do no doctors think 2.5mg and low doses do anything? Why do they think switching is going to help? I am kind of stuck in between believing doctors and believing what yall say..

The doctors are looking at you and seeing a "relapse" of anxiety, rather than the real issue which, as you say, is withdrawal/kindling/drug injury. They are trying to "treat" this "relapse" by switching drugs. Given the sensitive state of your nervous system it is very possible this would make you worse.

2.5 mg of lexapro is not intended to "do anything" in the way your doctor means it -- because we are not trying to treat a mental health issue. Rather we are trying to strike the right balance between preventing severe withdrawal effects and minimizing the activation caused by the higher doses of lexapro.

41 minutes ago, Rekonum said:

is it because these issues I’m having with withdrawal/kindling/activation are rare and they don’t know about it really or take it seriously?

These issues are not really all that rare, but unfortunately they are very often misdiagnosed as a relapse of a mental health issue, as you're experiencing now. As @LostinCanada explained above, drug companies don't engage in research about the adverse effects of the drugs they sell, and doctors (with a few exceptions) don't learn about withdrawal or kindling in med school or in their practice.

43 minutes ago, Rekonum said:

Also the GI doc wants me to try Protonix for a month just to see if it’s some reflux irritation going on.. is it worth a try or do you guys think even these kind of meds are destabilizing?

PPIs like Protonix can definitely be destabilizing. There are a few people on here who have had bad experiences with them -- check out @Emsy's thread for example.

@SarahMc Can I even take ibuprofen for headaches? been having headaches lately and I mean it seems like everything I asked about yall say is destabilizing😭

Edited September 15Sep 15 by Rekonum

Even in my sensitive state, I can take Tylenol

I have t tried ibuprofen lately