Hi, so glad to have found this site. I am 49 years old, female.

 

My medication history is below. In years past, before my ADHD diagnosis I was on Sertraline for a long time without issue and stopped it in 2023 without problems. I also had trials of Bupropion and Escitalopram, again, no issues.

 

I am 4 months now without any psychiatric meds and am struggling. No windows so far. Struggle to get out of bed, I live alone.and have no family support. I am still working full time because I am an immigrant in the UK and on a sponsored work visa (which requires full time work), but it is very hard.

 

Symptoms are getting worse. Lots of autonomic dysfunction and emotional blunting (this is terrible).

 

All GP investigations are normal ofcourse. My ADHD prescriber tried to gaslight me into believing my symptoms were menopause and I wasted time and money seeing menopause specialists and having my HRT adjusted whilst on Atomoxetine. It has been suggested I get an MRI head and see a neurologist but I don't want to waste more time and money and risk again being gaslit. Even the ADHD coach I was seeing didn't believe me.

 

The worst part of all? I AM A PSYCHIATRIST. I have been prescribing this poison to people for the past 15 years. I now know better. If I was more well I would be giving conference talks on this and screaming it from the rooftops. But most of all, I just want to now quit this diabolical profession. Sadly, I can't quit for another 2.5 years due to my work visa conditions. My plan, if I recover, is to retrain as a psychotherapist and maybe support folk in this situation get through. It has destroyed my life.

Hi Sminismoni

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

This is a volunteer-run, community forum aimed at helping those who are tapering and/or experiencing difficulties with psychiatric medications and withdrawl syndrome. We are not medical professionals and cannot offer medical advice. We simply offer support and opinions which you could use as talking points with a medical provider knowledgeable in withdrawing off psychiatric medications.

 

Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules and the disclaimer located here: Guidelines

 

Please make sure your signature is kept up to date with your drug history. This will allow members to see some basic information about your drug history and situation so that they may help you best. Information on how to do this is located in the FAQs section above, but here is a direct link: Update Signature

Once this is done, future posts made by you will have this signature turned on by default. For this reason please keep it clear but condensed as possible.

 

Could you perhaps add some doses in for us to see? And be good to have what info you have on the ADs you have taken in the past also.

I'm so sorry to read about the tough time you've had recently you will find plenty of support here for sure.

 

I suspect what you are experiencing is a cascade of CNS irritation from many years of use of psychiatric meds. We often see that people take an AD and then stop it quickly but experience no issues at all. I suspect what happens is some irritation is there but not enough to cause issues. Then each subsequent drug added later adds to the irritation until the nervous system snaps and says enough. Its common.

 

I don't have any experience with ADHD medication but I suspect, and from what I have seen, it's in the same camp so to speak.

 

It's not good you are suffering but it is good to have you here. Most of the significant changes that are happening are a result of professionals like you, getting harmed and 'seeing behind the veil'. I honestly think you have to experience this to believe it.

 

I sincerely hope you do recover. Whilst none of us know the future. What is seen is given the space and correct conditions, the nervous system does get better. I suspect this will be the same for you.

 

In the mean time this is what I would do if I were you:

 

-Stay Hydrated 

 

-Eat a good clean whole food diet, avoiding processed foods and sugars.

 

-Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and antihistamines and any other psychoactive substances.

 

Supplements are to be avoided initially, as they often irritate our nervous systems. Try to get your nutrition through food.

 

Down the line, you may wish to introduce Fish Oil and Magnesium. Those who can tolerate them have found them calming to the nervous system. Be careful try one at a time and start low and see how you get on should you choose to try them.

 

A daily walk is very important as much as you can manage, if you can manage it. Gets you your fresh air and Vitamin D does wonders for your mind!

 

You are very welcome here and I hope you find the site supportive.

 

Chippy

Thank you for joining.

 

If you are just about managing to function, it's absolutely awful, but all that can be done is gritting your teeth and getting through each day as best you can until it hopefully begins to get less difficult to do so.

 

4 months off is still quite early, and there is a lot of scope for improvement and healing in time at this stage.

 

3 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

The worst part of all? I AM A PSYCHIATRIST. I have been prescribing this poison to people for the past 15 years. I now know better. If I was more well I would be giving conference talks on this and screaming it from the rooftops. But most of all, I just want to now quit this diabolical profession. Sadly, I can't quit for another 2.5 years due to my work visa conditions. My plan, if I recover, is to retrain as a psychotherapist and maybe support folk in this situation get through. It has destroyed my life.

 

All of this is down the line, but you may be aware that there are a number of psychiatrists who are actively working on deprescribing practices and in my opinion the world desperately needs practitioners who are aware of the risks of these drugs.

 

It might give you hope to consider that your profession doesn't prevent you from working on making a difference to patient safety in the future. Some examples would be Mark Horowitz, Joanna Moncrief in the UK (among some others), Witt Doering and Stuart Shipko in the USA and so on.

Thank you Luke. If I feel any better later this year I plan to do a Grand Rounds presentation in my Trust to educate my colleagues on this. I plan to be very transparent and present myself as a case report.

Let us know if we can help.

 

I am also working on patient safety when it comes to psychiatric drugs. It would be very helpful to have a psychiatrist assist with this. However, this is not a priority at the moment- for now, focus on looking after yourself as best you can. I mention this only to provide some comfort in the fact that down the line, your profession is not incompatible with trying to make a positive difference- quite the opposite in fact.

 

 

On the subject of taking care of yourself, I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but this site was created as another prominent peer-support community is closing down. It will supposedly stay online "read only" for a time.

 

You may wish to read some of the success stories there, as this forum is very new and we have not built up a large volume of them yet.

 

I hope you'll find some comfort in reading that at 4 months off there is huge scope for recovery:

Success stories: Recovery from psychiatric drug withdrawal - Surviving Antidepressants

 

The absolute worst part about my withdrawal journey for me is the emotional blunting, lack of interest, inability to feel joy, get excited or want to do anything. Most days I can't even cry, I'm an emotional robot. Music, nature, art, all things that used to make my life rich mean nothing now. I could see someone murdered in front of me and probably shrug my shoulders and walk away. I also often feel physically sluggish and weighed down. Add in vague derealisation a lot of the time, and I cannot voluntarily initiate tasks, or connect to them in any meaningful way, let alone people. There is no urgency to anything, no sense of time or a future. This, more than any physical symptom has ruined my life. Today I have relatively few physical symptoms but this emotional bit never goes away, there is no reprieve. I can't even "feel" supported by others, if that makes sense. This is the most difficult symptom to describe to others as well.

21 minutes ago, Sminismoni said:

The absolute worst part about my withdrawal journey for me is the emotional blunting, lack of interest, inability to feel joy, get excited or want to do anything. Most days I can't even cry, I'm an emotional robot. Music, nature, art, all things that used to make my life rich mean nothing now. I could see someone murdered in front of me and probably shrug my shoulders and walk away. I also often feel physically sluggish and weighed down. Add in vague derealisation a lot of the time, and I cannot voluntarily initiate tasks, or connect to them in any meaningful way, let alone people. There is no urgency to anything, no sense of time or a future. This, more than any physical symptom has ruined my life. Today I have relatively few physical symptoms but this emotional bit never goes away, there is no reprieve. I can't even "feel" supported by others, if that makes sense. This is the most difficult symptom to describe to others as well.

Im so sorry. This is common. And very hard. I experienced it this severe for a brief time about 8 months off. It was the worse thing I had to deal with and didnt last long. Time, your body knows what it's doing and I feel confident this will ease and improve for you. n the mean time its just getting through the days to buy you that time. Can be such a slog I know. Glad youre here.

Today is a terrible day. Completely robotic and emotionless. Apathy, lying in bed staring at the ceiling. Literally can't do a thing. I can't even use my imagination or self talk.

 

I took a capsule of Magnesium threonate as a test mid morning as I was feeling so awful. It calmed me but gave me shivers and then I went in to a terrible spiral of convincing myself I will feel this way for 4 years or more (there are people's stories here and on SA that terrify me). I began to get thoughts of checking out but ironically realised I would need to make a will and tidy my flat, sell my car etc. And I am not capable of doing those things. I am imprisoned in this state and need to keep working full time as I am on a visa.

 

Many "recovery" stories I read don't actually mention timelines or how symptoms progressed, and many concern mainly suffering during the taper process, and perhaps a few months after. I am off all meds, there is no option to reinstate as I felt dreadful on them as well, with the same symptoms as now.

 

I got the shivers from Promethazine too, and Magnesium Glycinate made me agitated and worsened the night sweats. I wish I could sleep this suffering away but I am unable to. Not even being able to "feel" self compassion due to the emotional blunting is dreadful.

1 minute ago, Sminismoni said:

Today is a terrible day. Completely robotic and emotionless. Apathy, lying in bed staring at the ceiling. Literally can't do a thing. I can't even use my imagination or self talk.

 

I took a capsule of Magnesium threonate as a test mid morning as I was feeling so awful. It calmed me but gave me shivers and then I went in to a terrible spiral of convincing myself I will feel this way for 4 years or more (there are people's stories here and on SA that terrify me). I began to get thoughts of checking out but ironically realised I would need to make a will and tidy my flat, sell my car etc. And I am not capable of doing those things. I am imprisoned in this state and need to keep working full time as I am on a visa.

 

Many "recovery" stories I read don't actually mention timelines or how symptoms progressed, and many concern mainly suffering during the taper process, and perhaps a few months after. I am off all meds, there is no option to reinstate as I felt dreadful on them as well, with the same symptoms as now.

 

I got the shivers from Promethazine too, and Magnesium Glycinate made me agitated and worsened the night sweats. I wish I could sleep this suffering away but I am unable to. Not even being able to "feel" self compassion due to the emotional blunting is dreadful.

Hey

 

Im sorry to read this.

 

You are still very much in the acute early days phase. Unfortunately it's all about surviving the day at this point. You are doing great even though you dont realise you are. This is the hardest thing anyone can go through in my opinion. Its just take the day second by second if you have to. Getting through each day is a win. You just have to keep stringing enough of those days together and you will get there!

 

I would perhaps avoid worrying too much about others. It's normal and I see it alot. You are you and you will recover in your time frame. There isnt a way to second guess these things. If you find it triggering to read about the suffering I would avoid. You may feel differently in time.

 

Promethazine isnt a good idea. It will just cause you more issues not fix anything. Im not a fan of any supplements at all. I see so many react badly including fish oil and Magnesium. If you are having issues with Magnesium Id leave it be. Listen to your body its telling you things.

 

You are NOT alone. Post as much as you need. PM me if you want. Its always there if you need.

 

Chippy

11 minutes ago, Chippy said:

Hey

 

Im sorry to read this.

 

You are still very much in the acute early days phase. Unfortunately it's all about surviving the day at this point. You are doing great even though you dont realise you are. This is the hardest thing anyone can go through in my opinion. Its just take the day second by second if you have to. Getting through each day is a win. You just have to keep stringing enough of those days together and you will get there!

 

I would perhaps avoid worrying too much about others. It's normal and I see it alot. You are you and you will recover in your time frame. There isnt a way to second guess these things. If you find it triggering to read about the suffering I would avoid. You may feel differently in time.

 

Promethazine isnt a good idea. It will just cause you more issues not fix anything. Im not a fan of any supplements at all. I see so many react badly including fish oil and Magnesium. If you are having issues with Magnesium Id leave it be. Listen to your body its telling you things.

 

You are NOT alone. Post as much as you need. PM me if you want. Its always there if you need.

 

Chippy

Yes, unfortunately knowing I am in the acute early days is what is disheartening. I have so long to go. An Addictions Psychiatrist I spoke to a couple of weeks ago who was very knowledgeable about PAWS in his benzodiazepine and gabapentin patients, flippantly told me "Yes, this sort of thing can last 12-18 months". But that is not the timeline I see on online forums. On average it appears much longer, with some not really having windows at all.

6 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

Yes, unfortunately knowing I am in the acute early days is what is disheartening. I have so long to go. An Addictions Psychiatrist I spoke to a couple of weeks ago who was very knowledgeable about PAWS in his benzodiazepine and gabapentin patients, flippantly told me "Yes, this sort of thing can last 12-18 months". But that is not the timeline I see on online forums. On average it appears much longer, with some not really having windows at all.

I know this is a lot to take in for you.

 

You cant know how long or how severe it will be. The day and time mind set is the way through. So much easier said than done I know.

 

Stay strong. You can deal with more than you realise. I promise. 

3 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

Today is a terrible day. Completely robotic and emotionless. Apathy, lying in bed staring at the ceiling. Literally can't do a thing. I can't even use my imagination or self talk.

 

I took a capsule of Magnesium threonate as a test mid morning as I was feeling so awful. It calmed me but gave me shivers and then I went in to a terrible spiral of convincing myself I will feel this way for 4 years or more (there are people's stories here and on SA that terrify me). I began to get thoughts of checking out but ironically realised I would need to make a will and tidy my flat, sell my car etc. And I am not capable of doing those things. I am imprisoned in this state and need to keep working full time as I am on a visa.

 

Many "recovery" stories I read don't actually mention timelines or how symptoms progressed, and many concern mainly suffering during the taper process, and perhaps a few months after. I am off all meds, there is no option to reinstate as I felt dreadful on them as well, with the same symptoms as now.

 

I got the shivers from Promethazine too, and Magnesium Glycinate made me agitated and worsened the night sweats. I wish I could sleep this suffering away but I am unable to. Not even being able to "feel" self compassion due to the emotional blunting is dreadful.

So sorry you are having such a terrible day, I feel you and know how easy it is to get sucked into a negative mindset but you are still in the early days of active withdrawal which clouds any positive outlook, erases any self-compassion and creates doubts about everything but it's temporary even if it doesn't feel that way.

Regarding supplements, magnesium, fish oil ect, my body is also strongly reject them now, seems it's just overloading a system that is working full time on recovery so maybe it is worth putting it aside for now until your system comes out of emergency mode.

I really hope this wave passes quickly. sending you lots of healing and positive vibes.

Edited January 31Jan 31 by Fullhealing

5 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

Yes, unfortunately knowing I am in the acute early days is what is disheartening. I have so long to go. An Addictions Psychiatrist I spoke to a couple of weeks ago who was very knowledgeable about PAWS in his benzodiazepine and gabapentin patients, flippantly told me "Yes, this sort of thing can last 12-18 months". But that is not the timeline I see on online forums. On average it appears much longer, with some not really having windows at all.

 

The thing is, it can also be 6months, or 12-18 as he said. There is no telling, and many people do have a horrible time for months and then improve considerably.

 

It's important to keep in mind that those posting regularly in online peer support groups skews towards the worst affected for the longest.

@Sminismoni I have the same worries as you about the length of it. But we need to try and be realistic - first of all, people who recover quickly/quicker perhaps aren't drawn to these kinds of forums and just go on living their lives. As I followed some other people's success stories - I noticed they posted on forums less and less as they started to feel better. Only later they remembered to maybe post a success story. And many didn't post their success story at all! The other thing is, yes, recovery for some takes years but, again, we have to be realistic about that as well - most of them don't feel absolutely horrific all those years. Through months some symptoms ease up, people "turn corners". Perhaps complete 100% healing happened in year 3 for them, but through all those years there has been progress and healing made. Maybe in month 13 they started to enjoy music and movies again, in month 16 they were actively living their life (but still had some lingering physical symptoms and couldn't say they are completely healed). It's not all black and white (or rather - completely black!) as our WD mind would like us to believe.

Stay strong, we're all in the same boat. You are not alone! ❤️

@Sminismoni, you actually need to stay in this profession because we need people like you to safely deprescribe these medicines. Can you get in touch with Mark Horowitz who has now opened a deprescribing clinic on the NHS and work with him for training? We desperately need people like you to change the field. 

 

You will get through this and help fix the system! 

Hello, I am so sorry you are in this suffering state.  I have just moved over to this site from a previous site, so I would like to link to you some information from there to give you hope.  This is one of the hardest things any of us will ever go through.  But, there is light at the end of the tunnel.  Please do not give up!  Please read at least the first post of these threads, to help you understand more, and to have some hope.  

 

Anhedonia   What you have described, feeling emotionless is called anhedonia.  This is a common symptom, and will pass in time.  

 

Techniques for Managing Withdrawal Please do read this!  Especially read point #5.  It has some really helpful tips to help you manage the despairing helpless feeling you are having.  Read the second post in this thread too. 

 

The most important thing is to try to have some hope.  There is hope for you!  Many have recovered, and some from really bad circumstances and drug carousels.   

Edited January 31Jan 31 by getofflex

8 hours ago, Onmyway said:

@Sminismoni, you actually need to stay in this profession because we need people like you to safely deprescribe these medicines. Can you get in touch with Mark Horowitz who has now opened a deprescribing clinic on the NHS and work with him for training? We desperately need people like you to change the field. 

 

You will get through this and help fix the system! 

Thanks Onmyway for the comment you are right! Could you make an intro thread for me and say hi? Thanks

 

Chippy

I really don't know how I would even define or know whether I am in a "window". I have forgotten what I felt like before the meds.

 

I had periods on the Atomoxetine where for half a day or so my noradrenaline was perfectly balanced and my ADHD was "gone" - thoughts were clear, I had energy, was motivated and productive. The rest of the time I had all the physical and cognitive symptoms I still have now (which is why I don't see myself as in withdrawal, merely in ongoing injury and nervous system dysregulation that was already happening on the drug). I still have these clear motivated periods about twice a week for 2-3 hours but they are clearly not windows, they are a neurotransmitter effect. They feel good but are not ME.

 

No idea what a true window would even look like. I recall being tired, burnt out and unmotivated, with high anxiety around tasks and even mildly depressed for years before starting Atomoxetine. Is that my baseline? Now I often feel nothing, mostly zombie like and numb. I've got no idea how I would even start to identify signs of recovery.

2 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

The rest of the time I had all the physical and cognitive symptoms I still have now (which is why I don't see myself as in withdrawal, merely in ongoing injury and nervous system dysregulation that was already happening on the drug). I still have these clear motivated periods about twice a week for 2-3 hours but they are clearly not windows, they are a neurotransmitter effect. They feel good but are not ME.

 

Many people don't feel 100% awful and then suddenly start having periods where they feel 100% recovered as great windows.

 

Some times that are somewhat better, even in a small way, are often how they start. Over time, they become better, or longer, or the worse times gradually become severe etc.

I found out today that my abusive ex husband has launched yet another round of legal action to get more child support money from me. He earns $1.2 million Australian dollars a year. Our children are 15 and 17 and they live with him in his mansion (with housekeeper, pool etc) and have zero contact with me. He has alienated both of them, I don't even have photographs of what they look like now. 

 

I need to keep working, fight another legal battle and cope with withdrawal. I don't know how I can. If I stop work the Court can accuse me of deliberately minimising my income. However, I have no official "diagnosis" to justify it.

 

I feel so defeated.

@Sminismoni Gosh, this is extremely difficult, so sorry you are going through this.

Just keep doing what you can, you are not defeated, just in a very complex and challenging period that tests your strength but it is there.

Sending prayers, strength and hope for easier days, please hold on.

It is potentially worth getting an official diagnosis if you can. Perhaps you could seek referral to the National Deprescribing Clinic on the NHS:

National Psychiatric Drug Deprescribing Clinic (PDC) | NELFT NHS Foundation Trust

 

Through your profession it is also possible that by asking around you may also find other avenues for private consultation to seek diagnosis.

 

 

That aside, I really do want to highlight that even amongst those who take a considerable amount of time to heal, generally many people do improve over time before achieving full recovery. Although it is extremely hard, you are currently just about managing to somewhat function. The hope would be that if you can grit your teeth and continue to, then in time this will become easier. There is good precedent for this happening, even if it is not always linear.

41 minutes ago, Luke said:

It is potentially worth getting an official diagnosis if you can. Perhaps you could seek referral to the National Deprescribing Clinic on the NHS:

National Psychiatric Drug Deprescribing Clinic (PDC) | NELFT NHS Foundation Trust

 

Through your profession it is also possible that by asking around you may also find other avenues for private consultation to seek diagnosis.

 

 

That aside, I really do want to highlight that even amongst those who take a considerable amount of time to heal, generally many people do improve over time before achieving full recovery. Although it is extremely hard, you are currently just about managing to somewhat function. The hope would be that if you can grit your teeth and continue to, then in time this will become easier. There is good precedent for this happening, even if it is not always linear.

I am worried that the extra stress will slow down my recovery significantly. I am uncertain about the referral to the Deprescribing Clinic - I don't meet the criteria as I am off the drug. And I know most private psychiatrists will laugh at me. I have seen the GP about it and she has listed all my symptoms and done investigations. 

Super bad day. Woke up dizzy and off balance, then was in a "crack cocaine" phase until about 1pm - where I feel too awake, prickly sensations, no emotions, and then had flu-like symptoms in the afternoon i.e. aching muscles, sore throat, headache and feeling tired but wired. 

 

Lucky it was a work from home day and I couldn't do it without my laptop-in-bed-desk. Best money I ever spent. I even attend Teams meetings lying down now, and no one can tell.

 

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1552627931/laptop-desk-designed-for-lying-down

 

Back i n the offuce tomorrow though...

I hope that tomorrow is manageable.