18 minutes ago, The Dust said:

the Bupropion (or any other dopaminergic-noradrenergic drug) is safer and more effective option than staying on SSRI

Psychiatrist here. Sorry to say but this is simply not true and you are spreading misinformation. It is the same misinformation that drug companies use to market Bupropion - that it has "no withdrawal syndrome, no weight gain and no sexual side effects", and therefore safer and superior to SSRIs. Yet Bupropion is very similar to Atomoxetine, the drug that put me in protracted WD. Any powerful noradrenergic or dopaminergic drug has thr potential to cause CNS injury. There is no such thing as "safer" or "more effective" when it comes to adding drugs to a sensitive, withdrawal nervous system.

@Saar8srl Its a long hard road in withdrawal and it will be better if you avoid all substances that have any action in your brain whilst you are healing.

@The Dustits all good. I know you just try to help.

37 minutes ago, The Dust said:

I wrote above that my opinion is that her suffering is not severe enough to require psych medication. But at the same time I added that if she really want to take anything, the Bupropion (or any other dopaminergic-noradrenergic drug) is safer and more effective option than staying on SSRI. Mentioning safer option is not the same as "taking more drugs". But, after all, I probably really did something stupid

12 minutes ago, LostinCanada said:

Yes

Wow I taught I have had all the psychological symptoms already.

17 minutes ago, Sminismoni said:

@ Its a long hard road in withdrawal and it will be better if you avoid all substances that have any action in your brain whilst you are healing.

I understand you are a psychiatrist? Do you recommend me taking 1mg of zoloft to make things a bit better. It’s hard having this emotional and depression roller coaster. Just wondering . I also red that some people responded well on other drugs taking the lowest dose.

18 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

I understand you are a psychiatrist? Do you recommend me taking 1mg of zoloft to make things a bit better. It’s hard having this emotional and depression roller coaster. Just wondering . I also red that some people responded well on other drugs taking the lowest dose.

All I know about WD is from this forum and talking to Dr Mark Horowitz. My training as a psychiatrist did not prepare me for this and honestly gives me no special knowledge above what others here can tell you. The received wisdom is that reinstatement is not always helpful and can make things worse. If tried, it is best done within 6 months of the last dose, at a very, very low dose, and with the same drug.

Given that there is a chance RI can make things worse (you have already experienced this once), I would probably avoid it because you will heal one way or another. With RI you are prolonging an inevitable process as you'll have to stop again later. You just have to get through withdrawal, and you can't avoid it really.

I know how evil these symptoms are. I have them myself every single day. My thoughts are so dark and paranoid I can't really come on this forum, or even post on my own thread or respond to messages because I view people with anger, negativity and suspicion. That means I don't trust people to even support me and I am so numb I can't feel their empathy or goodwill. My only solace is that I intellectually know these are chemical feelings, even though they feel deadly real. The only way to cope is to wait for the hours to tick over into days, and into weeks and ride this out. That is all I can recommend.

54 minutes ago, Sminismoni said:

Psychiatrist here. Sorry to say but this is simply not true and you are spreading misinformation. It is the same misinformation that drug companies use to market Bupropion - that it has "no withdrawal syndrome, no weight gain and no sexual side effects", and therefore safer and superior to SSRIs. Yet Bupropion is very similar to Atomoxetine, the drug that put me in protracted WD. Any powerful noradrenergic or dopaminergic drug has thr potential to cause CNS injury.

I know I did something wrong (probably because of too much coffee), but I want so say that what you wrote sounds like some form of false equivalence fallacy - to compare my view with drug companies propaganda. I didn't say that you can't get WD symthoms or PSSD by taking Burpropion. I have already mentioned the possibility of getting seizure. Think we can all agree that warning people to stay away from drugs and debating which drug is more risky do not exclude each other.

Dr. Yosef Witt-Doering is also an psychiatrist and he is, in general, against drugs, but he said that stimulants are easier to quit and the only type of psych drugs that are actually making people feel good. We can totally agree with him at this point.

There is also some important distinction. SSRI does alter gut microbiota, but stimulants do not. And this is not unimportant.

54 minutes ago, Sminismoni said:

is no such thing as "safer" or "more effective" when it comes to adding drugs to a sensitive, withdrawal nervous system.

Well, we know that this is actually not that true. We all can hold the position that is better to stay away from any but we can still speculate at some point what is more risky. Will you, as a psychiatrist, insist that haloperidol falls into the same category as lamotrigine, for instance, if I choose one analogy?

22 minutes ago, The Dust said:

the only type of psych drugs that are actually making people feel good. We can totally agree with him at this point

Sorry but stimulant medication (Elvanse, Concerta, Medikinet) led me to get brain fog, jaw clenching, joint pain, severe depression and suicidal thinking. Atomoxetine gave me my current protracted withdrawal. I have seen very bad reactions to stimulants in my patients in clinic. So no, I don't agree with that psychiatrist on this point.

25 minutes ago, The Dust said:

haloperidol falls into the same category as lamotrigine, for instance, if I choose one analogy?

Haloperidol is a good drug in delirium and genuine psychosis. Lamotrigine is a fabulous mood stabiliser and I prescribe it a lot for genuine Bipolar. Are they risk free? No. Is one safer than another? No. Are they suitable for people in protracted withdrawal? No. In this setting, I will insist that they are equally dangerous.

I am not going to reply further as I don't feel this is a healthy discussion for me to continue engaging in.

6 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

am not going to reply further as I don't feel this is a healthy discussion for me to continue engaging in.

Love it @Sminismoni !

11 hours ago, Sminismoni said:

I know how evil these symptoms are. I have them myself every single day. My thoughts are so dark and paranoid I can't really come on this forum, or even post on my own thread or respond to messages because I view people with anger, negativity and suspicion. That means I don't trust people to even support me and I am so numb I can't feel their empathy or goodwill. My only solace is that I intellectually know these are chemical feelings, even though they feel deadly real. The only way to cope is to wait for the hours to tick over into days, and into weeks and ride this out. That is all I can recommend.

As someone who was on 450 mg of Bupropion for 20ish years and successfully tapered off, I can appreciate what you're saying. When I was tapering, I kept records, and it was very predictable when I'd have days that I was deep in chemical feelings. Regardless, it felt 100% real each and every time. As difficult as it was to be patient, time was the ultimate healer for me.

14 hours ago, Saar8srl said:

Could I get more physical and emotional symptoms now I stopped the oxazpem weeks ago? I just wonder.

Stopping a benzo Abruptly can be very hard on the nervous system and certainly is all part of how you feel now.

For the record here we have decided to leave this thread of posts in place rather than remove as the community has done a great job of confirming the forums position on this. We don't tolerate members suggesting taking new drugs to other members justifying one drug as less bad than another, I have spoken to the member in question about this and they have agreed to not do this in future, which we appreciate.

Hi chippy , thank you for your kindness and time. I just want to ask you a question. Will I be able to get rit of the symptoms by my self. The depression and anhedonia and the physical problems? Do you believe I can heal and get my life back without RI? Are there others who healed? I’m sorry I feel different every day and I don’t know if I will be safe without new drugs.

Hey @Saar8srl Thank you for your message, I have replied here so as to keep all your information in one place for you.

It is my pleasure to try to help you.

IMO the symptoms you are currently experiencing are due to WD coming off your drug too quickly and other associated kindling effects.

Adding in new drugs will likely make all this worse for you. No one needs these drugs to feel ok.

I do believe that given enough time you will start to improve, you don't need to RI to heal.

Apart from lots of time, healthy living and using coping skills to take it one day at a time until you start to feel better, the only thing that you can try to help you is RI a small dose of the original drug. This can cushion the symptoms down for you. It can make things worse. So you have choose if you would like to try this.

Many have been through this and come out the other side and you can and will too.

Thank you @Chippy .

It’s weird how you mind can play games with you. On the days when depression hits me hard I think this will never end I look at former pictures and want to go back in time and never use this drug. The other day I feel ok. Than I start comparing myself to others online or outside and I wish I was them. Then I push myself down and nothing is good enough. This could change every day and at that moment you believe it’s real.

Guys I have a very bad day today. Woke up with felling of emptyness and sadness. There is noting wrong and I don’t have any stress but I do not feel happy and have no motivation.

I know I shouldn’t analyze the situation, but I start to wonder when I have a good day if that’s me or the serotonin who has lost his way. Every day I feel different and the windows and waves also start to change.

58 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

Guys I have a very bad day today. Woke up with felling of emptyness and sadness. There is noting wrong and I don’t have any stress but I do not feel happy and have no motivation.

I'm sorry to hear that, just do whatever you can to occupy yourself, you know how those symptoms are temporary and don't last forever, never forget that.

59 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

I know I shouldn’t analyze the situation, but I start to wonder when I have a good day if that’s me or the serotonin who has lost his way. Every day I feel different and the windows and waves also start to change.

that's a good sign that you are healing, the fact that your symptoms morph and change, means your nervous system is healing itself and working.

20 hours ago, Saar8srl said:

Guys I have a very bad day today. Woke up with felling of emptyness and sadness. There is noting wrong and I don’t have any stress but I do not feel happy and have no motivation.

I am sorry to hear, unfortunately this feeling from seemingly nowhere is very common in WD. I remember it well.

20 hours ago, Saar8srl said:

I know I shouldn’t analyze the situation, but I start to wonder when I have a good day if that’s me or the serotonin who has lost his way. Every day I feel different and the windows and waves also start to change.

Sometimes these feelings can feel conneted to our emotions and still be WD, but the fact you can see that they are not connected to anything wrong in life should be all the confirmation you need to know this is WD.

As Lighty said, the fluctuations are good, signs your system is working and altering to find balance. All very normal in WD, hence waves and windows.

8 minutes ago, Chippy said:

I am sorry to hear, unfortunately this feeling from seemingly nowhere is very common in WD. I remember it well.

How long did the depression take for you ? Did it last long? Did RI worked for your depression? I use to have moments of sadness but nothing like this. Can not get out the bed now. Feel no joy and don’t want to spend the day. Just want the evening to come so I can sleep.

52 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

How long did the depression take for you ? Did it last long? Did RI worked for your depression? I use to have moments of sadness but nothing like this. Can not get out the bed now. Feel no joy and don’t want to spend the day. Just want the evening to come so I can sleep.

I took Mirt for 6 weeks and then CTd. My Neuro-emotions varied in type and strength for around 8 months. It was quite a rollercoaster, then they just fizzled out and stopped.

There is in my opinion little you can do to stop neuro-emotions. It is best to learn to cope with them. Distraction, learning to let them be there and 'float', which ties into acceptance and other mindfulness techniques. If you can get these under your belt the healing process is much easier.

Remember this is not forever. Your only job right now is to get through the day. Focus on one day at a time.

Unfortunately, at a month off, feeling up and down is to be expected. If anything, having good days at all at this kind of timeframe is a really good sign.

Try to get out of the mindset of days. In recovery, you will have plenty of bad ones. What matters is that the frequency and/or severity of them decreases, and likewise, that good days become better or more common in time.

3 minutes ago, Luke said:

Unfortunately, at a month off, feeling up and down is to be expected. If anything, having good days at all at this kind of timeframe is a really good sign.

Try to get out of the mindset of days. In recovery, you will have plenty of bad ones. What matters is that the frequency and/or severity of them decreases, and likewise, that good days become better or more common in time.

I am now 11 weeks off. If I read the story , one will think my symptoms or not that bad but the depression is killing me and also the not knowing when it hits . On bad days I stay in bed and can’t do nothing. I miss my old self and the things I did and enjoyed. Although I had this feeling the last years of sadness but nothing compared to this. I hope I will find a way to deal with the depression but don’t know how.

9 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

I am now 11 weeks off.

Your signature shows psychiatric drug use ending on the 27th June, which is 5 weeks ago.

Regardless of this, the point still stands- we're talking about timelines of weeks, which is extremely early to be having any good days at all.

9 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

If I read the story , one will think my symptoms or not that bad but the depression is killing me and also the not knowing when it hits . On bad days I stay in bed and can’t do nothing. I miss my old self and the things I did and enjoyed. Although I had this feeling the last years of sadness but nothing compared to this. I hope I will find a way to deal with the depression but don’t know how.

Nobody is suggesting that the symptoms aren't bad on bad days.

27 minutes ago, Chippy said:

There is in my opinion little you can do to stop neuro-emotions. It is best to learn to cope with them. Distraction, learning to let them be there and 'float', which ties into acceptance and other mindfulness techniques. If you can get these under your belt the healing process is much easier.

100% ☝️

Acceptance, still tons of work to do but the more I aware and less I resist, things are a little more bearable.

Time is the most important factor here and works wonders, you're still in early stage so hang in there, everything you are experiencing now is very common and it will fade away.

Edited August 3Aug 3 by Fullhealing

I really don’t see the use of being alive right now. My depression is so bad and I’m tired to live like this . I don’t know how you guys do this but I can’t….

4 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

I really don’t see the use of being alive right now. My depression is so bad and I’m tired to live like this . I don’t know how you guys do this but I can’t….

Trust me, you handle more than you think, it is exhausting but you can litterly survive so much, just take it as it is, embrace it, instead of resisting it, just choose to live with it and accept it, it's all temporary anyways.

you won't remember today in 10 years, like you don't remember your worries that you had exactly 10 yeats ago.

6 minutes ago, Saar8srl said:

I really don’t see the use of being alive right now. My depression is so bad and I’m tired to live like this . I don’t know how you guys do this but I can’t….

I think it's safe to say that almost everyone on this forum has had days like this -- where everything feels dark and hopeless and continuing on just feels impossible. But we all dig deep and find that we're stronger than we thought. You are too. This is not forever. Healing will happen, you will feel better, and you'll be so glad that you decided to stay in the fight. Until then, just hold on and get through the day. You can do this.

Can’t believe this is happening to me . Did anyone cured from this kind of depression from WD? I start to think this is my own depression…maybe