51 minutes ago, Nemina said:

Right back in a wave. Constant inner alarm, I hate it. A terrible feeling. I admire all of You who make it through difficult life situations during withdrawal, couldn´t imagine to master anything. I am in month 22 and still a long way to go, 8% receptor occupancy... and I always read that it gets harder in the end. What does that mean , actually? That one has to go slower in terms of percentage? That jumping off is the problem? That symptoms are stronger in the lower doses? Can anybody explain?

Sorry to hear this @Nemina . Yes it does seem to get harder towards the lower doses. I’m at 1.010mg Escitalopram and that’s ~ 25% occupancy. The last 7 months I’ve only managed to decrease by 0.02mg and it’s been hell. I’ve been crippled with pain, holding since the end of April. I’m pausing my taper indefinitely to really let things stabilise and try to get back to living for a while. And less often people report 2.5% or lower and often more holds. I think the jumping off issue depends on the individual. I listened to Mark H being interviewed and when asked at what dose he stopped said it was 0.001 mg Escitalopram. I’ve definitely found the symptoms more intense but I don’t know if some of it is cumulative. The only thing I’ve heard a lot of people say is “it takes as long as it takes“. I hope you find yourself in windows soon 🤗

3 hours ago, Catbird said:

Hi @Nemina did you get your blood and urine sodium and osmalality checked? It may be worthwhile getting checked out for insulin resistance/ diabetes. Polyuria (weeing a lot), polyphagia (hunger driven eating a lot) and polydipsia (drinking a lot due to thirst) are all possible signs of diabetes. Common tests are fasting blood glucose, fasting insulin and haemoglobin A1c. Depending on these there may be more tests required.

Thank you for checking in on me.

right now. I don’t feel like I could go to a doctor. Symptoms fluctuate a lot, I think it’s all part of withdrawal.

3 hours ago, Catbird said:

Sorry to hear this @Nemina . Yes it does seem to get harder towards the lower doses. I’m at 1.010mg Escitalopram and that’s ~ 25% occupancy. The last 7 months I’ve only managed to decrease by 0.02mg and it’s been hell. I’ve been crippled with pain, holding since the end of April. I’m pausing my taper indefinitely to really let things stabilise and try to get back to living for a while. And less often people report 2.5% or lower and often more holds. I think the jumping off issue depends on the individual. I listened to Mark H being interviewed and when asked at what dose he stopped said it was 0.001 mg Escitalopram. I’ve definitely found the symptoms more intense but I don’t know if some of it is cumulative. The only thing I’ve heard a lot of people say is “it takes as long as it takes“. I hope you find yourself in windows soon 🤗

Thanks for your reply my dear. I am very sorry to hear how hard it is for you. Maybe I should hold but holding has never helped me…

I feel so terrible today. Don’t know what to do. Had a cold shower it didn’t help.

Nemina, I'm so very sorry your in this wave again. Trust me when I say it to shall pass, I know it's hard to deal with accepting these feelings, but let lemon be present, and let them pass, try not to let them ruminate, it will come and go. The acceptance was one of the hardest things I've had to learn, but once you master this in time it definitely gets easier and losses it's grip. Have you tried grounding techniques, like walking in the grass barefoot , or sitting in the grass, . I do sip on chamomile tea, and eat my nuts and berries, if your system tolerates it. Absolutely, the lower the dose the more changelings it can be, slow is the new fast. Your system is a bit upset for now but trust me it will settle. Time is our friend, ooh' and a whole lot of patients. Things I've told myself. " this is just a symptom, it will pass, this will not beat me, I am stronger than this, " I tend to be my own cheerleader. I am strong, I am resilient, this will not keep me down, I am stronger and I will not give it the power. Nemina, you are so strong and resilient, your body will adjust, and your CNS will settle. You are in my thoughts, sending a hug my friend 🤗

5 hours ago, Nemina said:

Thanks for your reply my dear. I am very sorry to hear how hard it is for you. Maybe I should hold but holding has never helped me…

@Nemina you only need to do what feels right for you. I’ve had to hold because my body notices tiny decreases and ramps up the symptoms; I have no control over it. I’m sorry to hear you’re experiencing waves at the moment, I hope things settle for you soon 🤗

11 hours ago, Nemina said:

I feel so terrible today. Don’t know what to do. Had a cold shower it didn’t help.

So sorry my friend, so hard to bear a wave after good days especially with the waves' cruel tendency to completely erase every good part but we know the nature of the process and a bright window is already on the way.

I'm also in a long, exhausting stubborn wave so you're not alone, we just have to wait it out with distractions according to our ability, it will tire out eventually.

You got it @Nemina don't forget how incredibly strong you are.

Sending my love.

15 hours ago, Nemina said:

I feel so terrible today. Don’t know what to do. Had a cold shower it didn’t help.

I am sorry to read this dear Nemina. I do hope today is better for you. Remember the better days, there will be more x

Thank you from the bottom of my heart @Catbird @Chippy @Fullhealing @Bernadette . Yesterday I was so desperate. In the evening I got better. And I slept seven hours which is such a huge blessing. It is still surprising to me how convincing the desperation and hopelessness are in such waves. My body has been in such alarm and fear…

I’m so thankful for everybody on this forum and especially you guys who responded to me. ❤️

1 hour ago, Nemina said:

Thank you from the bottom of my heart @Catbird @Chippy @Fullhealing @Bernadette . Yesterday I was so desperate. In the evening I got better. And I slept seven hours which is such a huge blessing. It is still surprising to me how convincing the desperation and hopelessness are in such waves. My body has been in such alarm and fear…

I’m so thankful for everybody on this forum and especially you guys who responded to me. ❤️

Oh Nemina neuroemotion sure do feels real, unbelievably real.. only nasty chemicals can produce such scary stuff!

So pleased to hear that you're better! 🤍

Edited August 2Aug 2 by Fullhealing

Thinking of you dear @Nemina, you are so close and have come so far. You have the strength to make it through.

Sending you hugs and love always xxxxxx

1 hour ago, Nemina said:

Thank you from the bottom of my heart @Catbird @Chippy @Fullhealing @Bernadette . Yesterday I was so desperate. In the evening I got better. And I slept seven hours which is such a huge blessing. It is still surprising to me how convincing the desperation and hopelessness are in such waves. My body has been in such alarm and fear…

I’m so thankful for everybody on this forum and especially you guys who responded to me. ❤️

So pleased you had some sleep, very healing. That evening break can be a godsend when we have been in such distress all day.

Wishing you more good sleeps. xxx

So glad you're feeling better @Nemina 🤗🧡

4 hours ago, Nemina said:

Thank you from the bottom of my heart @Catbird @Chippy @Fullhealing @Bernadette . Yesterday I was so desperate. In the evening I got better. And I slept seven hours which is such a huge blessing. It is still surprising to me how convincing the desperation and hopelessness are in such waves. My body has been in such alarm and fear…

I’m so thankful for everybody on this forum and especially you guys who responded to me. ❤️

Nemina, I am so full of joy for you right now, it is a true blessing . So very happy to hear you got some very needed sleep, it definitely helps with the healing process. You are in my thoughts my dear friend and are doing amazing. Here's to more windows and relief. Hugs for now xxx Bernadette

21 hours ago, Nemina said:

It is still surprising to me how convincing the desperation and hopelessness are in such waves.

WD is a liar and at times a convincing one. Glad you feel a bit better and got some sleep. xxxxx

Opipramol is a drug that is not mentioned often. Maybe it’s only prescribed in Germany or Europe ? My friend takes it and now her doctor has told her that she can just stop it. (good old story.) she has taken it for two years. are there any experiences here in the forum? Does anybody know more about this drug? Dear @Sminismoni , you are such an expert, can you maybe say something about it? The ai says it is very different from any ssri. (Not inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin or noradrenaline , just something with the sigma receptor and I don’t know what that means then.) I am worried about my friend.

10 minutes ago, Nemina said:

Opipramol is a drug that is not mentioned often. Maybe it’s only prescribed in Germany or Europe ? My friend takes it and now her doctor has told her that she can just stop it. (good old story.) she has taken it for two years. are there any experiences here in the forum? Does anybody know more about this drug? Dear @Sminismoni , you are such an expert, can you maybe say something about it? The ai says it is very different from any ssri. (Not inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin or noradrenaline , just something with the sigma receptor and I don’t know what that means then.) I am worried about my friend.

I would just say taper it hyperbolically like any other drug.

It might be better to taper the drug at a rate of 5% every 2 weeks instead of 10% every 4 weeks, due to the short half life, or slower ofc according to her sensitivity.

17 hours ago, Nemina said:

Opipramol is a drug that is not mentioned often. Maybe it’s only prescribed in Germany or Europe ? My friend takes it and now her doctor has told her that she can just stop it. (good old story.) she has taken it for two years. are there any experiences here in the forum? Does anybody know more about this drug? Dear @Sminismoni , you are such an expert, can you maybe say something about it? The ai says it is very different from any ssri. (Not inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin or noradrenaline , just something with the sigma receptor and I don’t know what that means then.) I am worried about my friend.

Hey Nemina, you are such a kind soul thinking of your friend. Yes Opipramol, which is a TCA, needs to be tapered in the same way as any other Psych Drug, either hyperbolically or slowly using the max 10% per month method. Stopping this abruptly could cause much harm. Perhaps you could sign post your friend here. xxxxx

Short summary: Still on windows and waves, some symptoms being persistent, some coming and going. Haven’t had a full day window for quite a while.

Right now, I am having a lot of heart palpitations. Like my heart skips every 10th to 15th beat or so. Especially in the evening and at night. Uncomfortable feeling. I am taking calcium because of my osteoporosis. Wondering if that is a problem. Sleep is difficult. Sadness. Inner alarm, especially when waking up but also during the day. Slowing down withdrawal, because I am so unwell.

@Catbird you wrote:

If you haven't had your electrolytes checked recently it may be worth doing. I won't go into the pathophysiology but if your sodium is low the treatment is NOT simply to eat more salt (you may require fluid restriction). If/when you get your sodium checked ask for serum osmolality and urine osmolality to be done. This is just a suggestion, there may be other issues at play. However hyponatraemia is a common issue for people on ADs. 🤗

Thank you so much for that information.

I am planning to get blood work done. Magnesium, Sodium , calcium,TSH… what else should I have checked? Wich Electrolytes?

I am thankful for advice what I should tell my doctor.

1 hour ago, Nemina said:

Short summary: Still on windows and waves, some symptoms being persistent, some coming and going. Haven’t had a full day window for quite a while.

Right now, I am having a lot of heart palpitations. Like my heart skips every 10th to 15th beat or so. Especially in the evening and at night. Uncomfortable feeling. I am taking calcium because of my osteoporosis. Wondering if that is a problem. Sleep is difficult. Sadness. Inner alarm, especially when waking up but also during the day. Slowing down withdrawal, because I am so unwell.

@Catbird you wrote:

If you haven't had your electrolytes checked recently it may be worth doing. I won't go into the pathophysiology but if your sodium is low the treatment is NOT simply to eat more salt (you may require fluid restriction). If/when you get your sodium checked ask for serum osmolality and urine osmolality to be done. This is just a suggestion, there may be other issues at play. However hyponatraemia is a common issue for people on ADs. 🤗

Thank you so much for that information.

I am planning to get blood work done. Magnesium, Sodium , calcium,TSH… what else should I have checked? Wich Electrolytes?

I am thankful for advice what I should tell my doctor.

I was hoping that your absence here was a good sign, so sorry @Nemina however it sounds like you are bravely dealing with the existing symptoms and not giving them too much space.

I think you are making a very wise decision to hold for a while, it's great that you are attentive to your body, I'm sure that with time things will get back on track and you will be able to continue.

Wishing you blessed long relief very soon xxx

1 hour ago, Nemina said:

Short summary: Still on windows and waves, some symptoms being persistent, some coming and going. Haven’t had a full day window for quite a while.

Right now, I am having a lot of heart palpitations. Like my heart skips every 10th to 15th beat or so. Especially in the evening and at night. Uncomfortable feeling. I am taking calcium because of my osteoporosis. Wondering if that is a problem. Sleep is difficult. Sadness. Inner alarm, especially when waking up but also during the day. Slowing down withdrawal, because I am so unwell.

@Catbird you wrote:

If you haven't had your electrolytes checked recently it may be worth doing. I won't go into the pathophysiology but if your sodium is low the treatment is NOT simply to eat more salt (you may require fluid restriction). If/when you get your sodium checked ask for serum osmolality and urine osmolality to be done. This is just a suggestion, there may be other issues at play. However hyponatraemia is a common issue for people on ADs. 🤗

Thank you so much for that information.

I am planning to get blood work done. Magnesium, Sodium , calcium,TSH… what else should I have checked? Wich Electrolytes?

I am thankful for advice what I should tell my doctor.

Hi @Nemina calcium supplementation is generally not recommended for osteoporosis. If you have an adequate diet supplementation with Vitamins D3 & K2 is better. D3 absorbs calcium, whilst K2 directs it to the bones. Without K2 calcium can end up in your arteries..

Ask for urea, electrolytes and creatinine (UEC), RBC (red blood cell) magnesium which measures intracellular magnesium . If you are getting thyroid tested include TSH, free T4 and free T3 (TSH is made by the pituitary, T4 by the thyroid and it converts to T3 which is the active form).

Additional tests will depend on what you’re looking for. General tests include liver function (LFTs), full blood count (FBC) iron studies and lipid panel (this is basic so it’s worth including ApoB). It’s always useful to check fasting BGL and fasting insulin, HbA1C or serum fructosamine. These last 2 measure average glucose - the first over last 3 months and the other over last 2-3 weeks. High blood glucose can cause increased urine.

If you’re still having problems with large volumes of urine check serum and urinary osmolality.

I am having more and more problems with my thumping and jumping heart. I hear it in my ears, I feel it in the chest and under my ears along the throat, what an unnerving symptom. Heart jumps like a bat in a cage, desperately trying to escape. Keeps me from sleeping, gives a bodily feeling of anxiety, makes me wired and tired. We will see, what the doctor says today. I want just the blood testing, If I have an ECG, he might come up with some strange diagnosis, when it’s definitely just withdrawal. I just need to get through this period. Today I took a quarter of a tablet of metoprolol, but so far I haven’t noticed any improvement. Magnesium does not help, if I take more than one capsule I get diarrhia, L-theanin also seems to have no effect. Any other ideas?

39 minutes ago, Nemina said:

I am having more and more problems with my thumping and jumping heart. I hear it in my ears, I feel it in the chest and under my ears along the throat, what an unnerving symptom. Heart jumps like a bat in a cage, desperately trying to escape. Keeps me from sleeping, gives a bodily feeling of anxiety, makes me wired and tired. We will see, what the doctor says today. I want just the blood testing, If I have an ECG, he might come up with some strange diagnosis, when it’s definitely just withdrawal. I just need to get through this period. Today I took a quarter of a tablet of metoprolol, but so far I haven’t noticed any improvement. Magnesium does not help, if I take more than one capsule I get diarrhia, L-theanin also seems to have no effect. Any other ideas?

It's good you're getting things checked out @Nemina . It may give you some peace of mind to know things are okay physically.

When I've been in a similar position I've found it's best to hold and let things settle. I notice you've been dropping the doses every month, this may be too fast and it might be good or the future to look at micro tapering and holding for 2 weeks between reductions. However, for now it may be better to just hold your current dose for a few months. I've had to do this twice and both times things seemed to be getting worse and both times one day everything went back to being stable.

Thank You! I am holding now...

Dear @Nemina ,

Praying for you dear Nemina and I hope you have a positive experience at your medical appointment.

The heart stuff would be very scary at the level you have it. Mine is just mild burning.

I don't like suggesting herbs on here but maybe hawthorn ( berries/ leaf). Very gentle. A tea even milder than tablets. Very European too. I see Hawthorn more as a food herb like nettles, dandelion etc ...

Strength and love your way .xxx