This stage of the taper is really hard, and it could very well just be that withdrawal is catching up with you from the reductions over the last year.

 

There’s also the windows and waves effect, so the progression of symptoms isn’t always in one direction. I don’t know about you but I always seem to find it worse in the winter, too. It may well be that if you hold a little longer you’ll see it swing back the other way.

 

I'm obviously no expert, but withdrawal seems the more obvious explanation to me than poopout.

Thank you @Chippy and @sarahw!

yes, it is tricky. Today I feel better…. 
I started the medication in 2015 because I had many years with lots of anxiety and sleeplessness, very strong Cortisol spikes,  constant alarm ….Hard to believe, but it was even worse than during this taper. A terrible time in which are often only wanted to die.  I have a complex posttraumatic stress disorder with which I have been struggling almost all my life, but somehow it escalated in my 40s. It got much better with the ad and the Ambien. Anyway, so symptoms coming back, would mean anxiety for me. But I have right now not so strong anxiety, just a host of other symptoms and those change all the time in intensity. Today it’s dizziness, brain, zaps, and strong back pain. And lack of energy, as always, tired. Actually, a very good day! I would say this is my withdrawal normal - the best it can get at the moment, or maybe a dirty window. I still have this strange anxiety from time to time, mostly in the evening, while everything else is getting better in the evening. I think that the.L-theanin is helpful in that or maybe it’s just a placebo effect. Anyway, I will keep my hold for now.

Edited January 29Jan 29 by Nemina

24 minutes ago, Nemina said:

Thank you @Chippy and @sarahw!

yes, it is tricky. Today I feel better…. 
I started the medication in 2015 because I had many years with lots of anxiety and sleeplessness, very strong Cortisol spikes,  constant alarm ….Hard to believe, but it was even worse than during this taper. A terrible time in which are often only wanted to die.  I have a complex posttraumatic stress disorder with which I have been struggling almost all my life, but somehow it escalated in my 40s. It got much better with the ad and the Ambien. Anyway, so symptoms coming back, would mean anxiety for me. But I have right now not so strong anxiety, just a host of other symptoms and those change all the time in intensity. Today it’s dizziness, brain, zaps, and strong back pain. And lack of energy, as always, tired. Actually, a very good day! I would say this is my withdrawal normal - the best it can get at the moment, or maybe a dirty window. I still have this strange anxiety from time to time, mostly in the evening, while everything else is getting better in the evening. I think that the.L-theanin is helpful in that or maybe it’s just a placebo effect. Anyway, I will keep my hold for now.

Yea agreed. On balance that sounds like wd doesn’t it. 
 

Even the improvement in the evening is typical. Not sure when you take your dose? 

Thanks for being interested. In the morning after breakfast.

9 hours ago, Nemina said:

Thanks for being interested. In the morning after breakfast.

Yeah so improving in the evening is a typical wd pattern. You take your dose am but feel better in the evening long after the dose. So no interdose wd here. 
 

Chippy

21 hours ago, sarahw said:

I'm obviously no expert, but withdrawal seems the more obvious explanation to me than poopout.

 

What complicates it even more is that these are essentially terms invented by online peer support communities to describe things that haven't really been completely defined nor objectively measured by any kind of science.

 

These terms can be helpful to help describe concepts and to try to figure out what is going on, but ultimately the harms that these drugs can do are very complex and so is the human body. We have very little idea of the bodily functions and mechanisms we are attempting to describe in the first place.

 

16 hours ago, Nemina said:

But I have right now not so strong anxiety, just a host of other symptoms and those change all the time in intensity. Today it’s dizziness, brain, zaps, and strong back pain. And lack of energy, as always, tired. Actually, a very good day! I would say this is my withdrawal normal - the best it can get at the moment, or maybe a dirty window. I still have this strange anxiety from time to time, mostly in the evening, while everything else is getting better in the evening. I think that the.L-theanin is helpful in that or maybe it’s just a placebo effect. Anyway, I will keep my hold for now.

 

Whether it's poopout, withdrawal etc, what these symptoms are is absolutely classic in terms of the symptoms reported by others harmed by these medications.

 

It's good that you are sometimes better.

 

I hope that you can stabilise further and that further drops can be managed without huge issues.

Thank you @Chippy and @Luke!  It is so helpful to have people who give feedback and with whom one can exchange thoughts about this process.
 

Today I have actually another good day! Dizziness, brain zaps, back pain and that’s about it. Fantastic! I even have cleaned the living room and the kitchen and I have gone for a long walk in the sun. We have some beautiful snow right now. I am so thankful. 
 

 

On 1/29/2026 at 12:07 PM, sarahw said:

n. I don’t know about you but I always seem to find it worse in the winter, too. It may well be that if you hold a little longer you’ll see it swing back the other way.

Yes, @sarahw, I agree, the Winter plays a role. We have a lot of fog and not much sun in these months. Also, the cold is tough on me. Since I have developed Hashimoto’s, I am much more sensitive to changes in the temperature, especially if the temperature goes down.
Today is a sunny day and I was able to enjoy it. Makes me really feel much better.
 

I wish you a lot of sunny days, too! 
 

by the way: I see that you have jumped down to zero from 0.2 mg Citalopram. Do you think you were ready for this or do you think it was too early? What is your view on this in hindsight?. (Citalopram is about half as strong as Escitalopram, so this would be 0,1mg Escitalopram, I think)

5 hours ago, Nemina said:

Yes, @sarahw, I agree, the Winter plays a role. We have a lot of fog and not much sun in these months. Also, the cold is tough on me. Since I have developed Hashimoto’s, I am much more sensitive to changes in the temperature, especially if the temperature goes down.
Today is a sunny day and I was able to enjoy it. Makes me really feel much better.
 

I wish you a lot of sunny days, too! 
 

by the way: I see that you have jumped down to zero from 0.2 mg Citalopram. Do you think you were ready for this or do you think it was too early? What is your view on this in hindsight?. (Citalopram is about half as strong as Escitalopram, so this would be 0,1mg Escitalopram, I think)

I think the end of my taper, including jumping to zero, produced more withdrawal than I thought it would. I've been at zero for 7 months now and would have expected withdrawal to be gone by now, considering I did a slow 3-year taper. Sometimes I think it can’t still be withdrawal, but reading how tough the taper end is for other people has made me accept that probably it is.

 

I found it stressful not ever feeling certain of how I should be doing the taper - not knowing if I should really have been taking it much slower, or if that wouldn’t have helped, or even may have created more difficulty in the end (since I’d been on it for less than a year before trying to come off). It’s so easy to get tangled in doubts and fears about it. I don’t know if I did it "right", I did the best I could and it’s done now, so I’m just trying to manage the withdrawal and hope it will improve at some point.

 

If I were in your shoes, though, since you have quite a long drug history, I’d probably be inclined to go slower and lower than I did, if you can.

 

Very glad to hear you’ve had a good day, and yay for sunshine!

11 hours ago, Nemina said:

Dizziness, brain zaps, back pain and that’s about it. Fantastic!

It say something about um this journey we are all on when this counts for a good day doesn’t it 🙃😂

 

Glad you’re doing better. 
 

11 hours ago, Nemina said:

even have cleaned the living room and the kitchen and I have gone for a long walk in the sun. We have some beautiful snow right now. I am so thankful.

Love this happy for you 😀. I enjoy sunny winter days. Been very grey and wet here last two weeks. Not good. 
 

 

15 hours ago, Nemina said:

Thank you @Chippy and @Luke!  It is so helpful to have people who give feedback and with whom one can exchange thoughts about this process.
 

Today I have actually another good day! Dizziness, brain zaps, back pain and that’s about it. Fantastic! I even have cleaned the living room and the kitchen and I have gone for a long walk in the sun. We have some beautiful snow right now. I am so thankful.

 

That's promising.

 

Getting outdoors in nature, where possible, is nice and it's good for your health to stay active and get out walking.

Woke up a couple of times during the night, shaking again. Got about six hours of sleep. Seems my little window is closing already. I had to do some stressful work, just a couple hours around noon, but now I feel exhausted and even more shaky. Well, yesterday was beautiful. I take it day by day and step-by-step. 

8 hours ago, Chippy said:

20 hours ago, Nemina said:

Dizziness, brain zaps, back pain and that’s about it. Fantastic!

It say something about um this journey we are all on when this counts for a good day doesn’t it 🙃😂

 

Glad you’re doing better

You are right @Chippy, that says a lot! It is good to document those things, one day, when complaining about a little back pain and feeling sorry for myself , I will make myself look this up. And hopefully be a very thankful, healthy woman!

9 minutes ago, Nemina said:

a very thankful, healthy woman!

I know it!

12 minutes ago, Nemina said:

I take it day by day and step-by-step. 

this is it Nemina amazing attitude as ever! 🙂 Plod on through as B says

10 hours ago, Nemina said:

Woke up a couple of times during the night, shaking again. Got about six hours of sleep. Seems my little window is closing already. I had to do some stressful work, just a couple hours around noon, but now I feel exhausted and even more shaky. Well, yesterday was beautiful. I take it day by day and step-by-step. 

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you have a better night tonight.  Sending you healing thoughts and prayers. 

Thank you @getofflex and @Chippy ❤️, it is wonderful not to be alone in this.

 

And prayers are always appreciated 🤗 I strongly believe that they make a difference.

 

Sunday afternoon and evening I had some more energy than usually, but today I have a full-blown migraine. Well, maybe that isn’t even due to withdrawal, I had migraines before. So maybe when the migraine subsides I find myself in a window, who knows?

I can relate very well to @Poison Pills story, who fell down some stairs and hurt himself badly and received much sympathy, while feeling much worse from the constant withdrawal than from the fall. When I have a migraine, everybody has sympathy. But  a day it with a  migraine and few withdrawal symptoms is still one of the better days…🙄

well, YOU  guys understand and that feels good.

so let’s keep going, healing is ahead!

thanks for reading,

Nemina

3 hours ago, Nemina said:

Sunday afternoon and evening I had some more energy than usually, but today I have a full-blown migraine. Well, maybe that isn’t even due to withdrawal, I had migraines before. So maybe when the migraine subsides I find myself in a window, who knows?

Hope you feel better soon @Nemina 🤗

11 hours ago, Nemina said:

I can relate very well to @Poison Pills story, who fell down some stairs and hurt himself badly and received much sympathy, while feeling much worse from the constant withdrawal than from the fall.

This is so true! They can’t help it unfortunately. Only way to understand all this is to experience it. We’ve all got each other though so important isn’t it. 

I just found out how to calculate the SERT receptor occupancy for Escitalopram.

 

There is  a wonderful site where you can calculate it for all kinds of meds.

@Chippy you might want to put this link it the right place so that others find it, when they need it.

 

https://tapersafe.com/receptor-occupancy.html

 

 

Escitalopram (Lexapro)

Occupancy ≈ 89.75 × dose / (2.73 + dose) (for SERT)

18 minutes ago, Nemina said:

I just found out how to calculate the SERT receptor occupancy for Escitalopram.

 

There is  a wonderful site where you can calculate it for all kinds of meds.

@Chippy you might want to put this link it the right place so that others find it, when they need it.

 

https://tapersafe.com/receptor-occupancy.html

 

 

 

Escitalopram (Lexapro)

Occupancy ≈ 89.75 × dose / (2.73 + dose) (for SERT)

Hey @Nemina

 

Very interesting and thank you for sharing it.

 

I don't think I will post this in the support areas at least for the minute as Im not sure of the accuracy of it. I wouldn't want to give out false information.

 

What I will say is these charts are available in The Maudsley De Prescribing Guidelines and would suggest referring to those to be safe.

 

I have a copy should anyone need some information from it.

 

Chippy 

Today I woke up at six from a tiny sound with heart palpitations and trembling. I hate that. The next two ours half asleep and several more of those incidents. I should get up when that happens, but somehow I can’t, it is always like that. It’s been a trauma thing before taking the ADs , what it is now during tapering, I don’t know. Anyway, it is definitely cortisol.  I hope it is only the withdrawal and not the old troubles coming back. 

 After that bad start, I had a semi bad day, had to go to the office and didn’t feel well. But now in the evening, I feel much better, sitting on my sofa and drinking herb tea.

 Even though the morning was so bad, I decided to end my hold after exactly 3 1/2 months and take up my taper again and reduce the dose a tiny bit to 0,335 mg. We will see how that goes.

Here is to a better night and many better days to come!

 

14 minutes ago, Nemina said:

it is definitely cortisol.  I hope it is only the withdrawal and not the old troubles coming back

I still have on and off cortisol after 13 months, but better.  Also, old symptoms can show up to heal more.  I had old symptoms coming back at month 10 and I'm still holding since but not intense..

Thank you @Raymond, I think we are both in the same boat. Not the best boat to be in but at least there are nice people on board 🤗

6 minutes ago, Raymond said:

old symptoms can show up to heal more.

Do you mean symptoms from the time before the meds or from the beginning of the taper?

2 hours ago, Nemina said:

should get up when that happens, but somehow I can’t, it is always like that. I

I’m like you @Nemina Even though I’m highly activated I just want to curl up in a ball