@Finni it gets trickier with every reduction I find 🤗

@Finni is all this happening after you take your dose ?

36 minutes ago, Beehive said:

@Finni is all this happening after you take your dose ?

Sometimes I get more activated after dose, but I usually  still  asleep and sleep several hours 

Just interested to know what time is your last meal and what time is your morning meal 

21 minutes ago, Beehive said:

Just interested to know what time is your last meal and what time is your morning meal 

I eat supper around 5:30 or 6 PM
And I have a snack before bedtime usually

 

I eat around 6 AM the next day

Mark Horwitz has responded to me, but I’ve emailed him back because he didn’t answer the questions I most wanted answered.
 

I still don’t understand why I’m supposed to take the same weight of mirtazapine every day instead of taking off the same percentage of each tablet since my tablets have such a big range in  weight

 

 

3 minutes ago, Finni said:

I still don’t understand why I’m supposed to take the same weight of mirtazapine every day instead of taking off the same percentage of each tablet since my tablets have such a big range in  weight

My opinions is that it's best to take the same weight everyday, I already told you that tablet can have a certain legal range of drug amount difference

5 minutes ago, Lighty said:

My opinions is that it's best to take the same weight everyday, I already told you that tablet can have a certain legal range of drug amount difference

I know I just can’t get it through my head
 

I wonder if I would’ve done better dissolving my tablet and water and pulling off the same amount every day

 

psychologically it’s just a mind trick with me because I don’t like taking off more of the tablet some days than others

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Finni

2 minutes ago, Finni said:

I wonder if I would’ve done better dissolving my tablet and water and pulling off the same amount every day

I mean if that is easier to you than cutting with a blade, sure.

2 minutes ago, Finni said:

I know I just can’t get it through my head

the whole tablet is filled with a blend, and the average weight = to your dose generally, each tablet can have a bit more or less, then it makes sense.

Just don't overthink it, the calculated average tablet weight = tablet dose.

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Lighty

4 minutes ago, Finni said:

don’t understand why I’m supposed to take the same weight of mirtazapine every day instead of taking off the same percentage of each tablet since my tablets have such a big range in  weight

This is because the drug is mixed in huge quantities in a factory with a specifically set amount of drug to a specifically set amount of filler. The factory uses mods to make the tablets....it can not make perfectly weighted pills but the ratio of drug to filler remains the same. Therefore weight is the accurate way to stay consistent with dosage. 

If a tablet weighs more it has more drug and if the tablet weighs less, it has less drug. This means if you changed your weight for every tablet you would get inconsistent doses.

1 minute ago, Finni said:

I just can’t get it through my head

We have done this for years successfully, thousands of us. 

@LostinCanada

I don’t mean to be difficult. I just thought maybe some of the difference in weight was because of filler and that the same amount of the actual drug was in the tablet no matter what the weight..

 

 

4 minutes ago, Finni said:

same amount of the actual drug was in the tablet no matter what the weight..

This would mean they would have to inject the drug separately into each tablet. Of course this would be impossible and not cost effective.

I think I’m starting to get it. 
like I said earlier to someone, it’s just more of a mind trick with me…

When I see that the pill is smaller than the one I took the night before, my brain reacts 

6 minutes ago, Finni said:

When I see that the pill is smaller than the one I took the night before, my brain reacts 

Some prefer to buy capsules, which individually need to be weighed and then fill them with powder from a bunch of ground up tablets instead of shaving/filing.

 

And now I’ve heard back from Mark Horowitz and I get to be confused all over again 😂
 

i’ll screenshot his email

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Finni

Here’s a copy and paste email from him

 

 

Hard to say what to do with tablets weighing different amounts. If you feel that there is a clear difference then you could calculate the weight from each tablet if you like i..e weight of tablet multiply by 14.7 divided by 15. That is take 98% of the weight of whatever the tablet weighs.

As an alternative, to sidestep this you could return to 15mg so that you will just be able to take a tablet each day rather than having to do all these calculations but I understand if you don't want to make further changes. (If you did this I would titrate up slowly). 

No disrespect but he lives in a country where manufactured liquids are available and has only used those in his own taper. He has never had to deal with the inconsistency of the pill form.

This subject has been extensively discussed on SA and therefore it is the proven way of insuring consistent dosing.

I personally have even researched the equipment used in the factories and am confident in this method. Maybe researching this would help you as well.

I know you are trying to find an explanation for your situation.

You asked about an adverse reaction and withdrawal happening together. This is a very real possibility. Even in an adverse reaction/kindling/poop out, there can be withdrawal. The only way to deal with this is to taper through it till you get ahead of it.

 

This is what was advised on SA by a senior member:

 

"Long holds during poopout are not a good thing. All they do is throw the body back into the poopout condition instead of letting the taper get the upper hand.

 

Tapering through poopout is a test of will. The person tapering will not see meaningful results for a very long time, but they have to just blindly keep tapering at a moderate rate. With the Brassmonkey slide, the extra two weeks is intended to relive the symptom stacking. It would be possible to extend the hold a week or two, which may help even out the symptom load. But poopout is a symptom heavy condition with heavy swings of its own. Similar to a CT, but not nearly as extreme because you are feeding the drug at a planned rate, which will help keep the symptoms in check.

 

When tapering out of poopout you are balancing three things. The direct action of the drug. The actions of your body trying to regain stasis and override the actions of the drug. And reducing the amount of drug available for your body to function.

 

It is a true form of physical addiction in that your body requires the drug to maintain the alterations the drug has caused and keep functioning, but not an actual addiction because there are no intense cravings for the drug. Your body is rejecting the presence of the drug and is trying to return to its natural no drug way of working. That causes the poopout/WD symptoms.

 

Tapering out of poopout is trying to help the body regain its natural state by withdrawing the drug while maintaining enough of the drug to fool the body into functioning in its drug modified state. Once the balance shifts in favor of the natural body the WD symptoms will start to resolve and the person will start to feel better. The bad thing is this can take a very long time. For me it was two and a half years before I felt any improvement and then another year before I was seeing real progress. I have had similar time frames reported by other members.

 

Long answer for a short question, I hope it helps.

 

As I mentioned, tapering out of poopout is a blind faith process. You have to have faith in your body wanting to heal and that the process will eventually work. Having to endure WD symptoms for an extended period is a real challenge, but the only way out of poopout is through and down. After CT it is probably the hardest way to get off of these drugs."

Edited April 7Apr 7 by LostinCanada

20 hours ago, Lighty said:

I mean if that is easier to you than cutting with a blade,

If I did switch over to dissolving my tablets, I would need to do it little by little, right? 

@Finni the instructions on how to cross over are in this link:

https://antidepressantrecovery.org/topic/240-preparing-doses-for-tapering-weighing-diy-liquids

☺️

Edited April 8Apr 8 by LostinCanada

I haven’t made any changes. I’m still taking the same weight.
 

My poor body is being pounded with horrible deep nerve pain and pressure that lasts hours and hours…

 

I know I had some of this going on a 15 mg but this really deep, twisting hideous hours at a time torture started 2 weeks after being at 14.7 mg. 
And since the accidental 15 mg dose, I feel like I’m even worse

 

I didn’t even know my body could do this for hours and hours

I’m not sure why today is such an incredibly hard day with unrelenting symptoms. 
I was having a hard enough time at 14.7 before the “disruption” 19 days ago 

 

I’m back to wondering if I’m ever going to be better.

I’ve been having really rough days but today I think is the absolute peak. 
 

I wish this were just a case of needing to updose. 
 

Dr Horowitz said if I updose to just go up .1 mg every two weeks 

@Chippy

Edited April 9Apr 9 by Finni

53 minutes ago, Finni said:

I’m not sure why today is such an incredibly hard day with unrelenting symptoms. 
I was having a hard enough time at 14.7 before the “disruption” 19 days ago 

 

I’m back to wondering if I’m ever going to be better.

I’ve been having really rough days but today I think is the absolute peak. 
 

I wish this were just a case of needing to updose. 
 

Dr Horowitz said if I updose to just go up .1 mg every two weeks 

@Chippy

I'm sorry finni so brutal, I know relief will come I just hope very very soon! 

Hang in there and remember how strong you are! 🫂

5 hours ago, Finni said:

I haven’t made any changes. I’m still taking the same weight.
 

My poor body is being pounded with horrible deep nerve pain and pressure that lasts hours and hours…

 

I know I had some of this going on a 15 mg but this really deep, twisting hideous hours at a time torture started 2 weeks after being at 14.7 mg. 
And since the accidental 15 mg dose, I feel like I’m even worse

 

I didn’t even know my body could do this for hours and hours

Sorry to hear you’re having such a torturous time @Finni. About a year ago I’d been tapering too fast and had to hold my dose, my body just wouldn’t let me decrease any further. I held for about 3.5 months. During that time I had a huge array of symptoms I hadn’t experienced before. Things got worse before they got better. One day it just resolved. I gave it a couple of weeks before I resumed tapering albeit at a much slower rate (micro tapering). I hope something similar happens for you and you find stability soon 🤗🧡

11 minutes ago, Catbird said:

Sorry to hear you’re having such a torturous time @Finni. About a year ago I’d been tapering too fast and had to hold my dose, my body just wouldn’t let me decrease any further. I held for about 3.5 months. During that time I had a huge array of symptoms I hadn’t experienced before. Things got worse before they got better. One day it just resolved. I gave it a couple of weeks before I resumed tapering albeit at a much slower rate (micro tapering). I hope something similar happens for you and you find stability soon 🤗🧡

Thank you so much.

Did you have to up dose at all or did you just hold tight?

1 hour ago, Finni said:

Thank you so much.

Did you have to up dose at all or did you just hold tight?

I just held tight @Finni but I’m tapering a different AD to you. Your physical symptoms sound very intense. I’ve had intense muscle spasms in the past though they have not been continuous 🤗