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The Antidepressant Harm and Recovery Forum

The Antidepressant Harm and Recovery Forum

The Antidepressant Harm and Recovery Forum

The Antidepressant Harm and Recovery Forum

The Antidepressant Harm and Recovery Forum

The Antidepressant Harm and Recovery Forum

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Introductions & Ongoing Recoveries

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Sleep in WD

I totally respect your choices here, and I know sometimes we sound like we are pill shaming, it isn't our intention, we are just trying to share the knowledge of the community in an attempt to keep people safe and give them the best long term outcome possible.

Like all drugs, tolerance is built up and the effectiveness or benefits will lessen over time.

Unfortunately your experience here with sleep is common in WD. We all do all the things that are supposed to help sleep as you mention above, the reality is these things do help but can't undo the injury that has happened to the sleep archiecture (knowone knows the actual mechanics of the injury, but it's clear to me it's very real), time is the healer here imo. Im still dealing with this to a lesser but signifcant degree 2.5+ years later. Main thing is to set the foundation for healing as we will have mentioned at the end of your intro post you recieved from us when you joined/started your personal topic.

I can't know that. I can say that taking additional substances that are psychoactive is seen as upsetting to a nervous system that is already sensitive. I would say that if you wanted to stop taking it, as you have been taking them consistently for a long time, I wouldn't stop CT. I would start to taper them with a set of scales and just reduce at your own pace over a period of time till your off. I would worry rebound insomnia might be a problem otherwise.

I know the timescales of healing are daunting, and I know it really messes with lifes plans. I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your family planning or how long this will take to resolve. What I would say is that we all in WD have to accept the reality of what has happened and adjust our plans and expectations accordingly, keeping our mind on the day in hand and not thinking too much about what comes next. Acceptance is peace, peace calms the nervous system and helps it heal imo.

Chippy

By Chippy · 10 hours ago10 hr
Sleep in WD

I’ve done my best to not take anything but after a year of not sleeping well, sadly it’s either that or be non-functional for my family. I’ve tried researching for better options and my doctor offered me amitriptyline and gabapentin, which I thankfully denied in hindsight. I kind of see it as the lesser of all evils at the moment, especially since I’m not even taking half a dose. Maybe it’s different for me because I’ve had to use it my pregnancies as part of the B6/Unisom protocol for morning sickness, so I’m less sensitized to it. I’m so discouraged as I’ve done all the recommended things: magnesium, earplugs, sleep hygiene, blackout curtains, not eating/drinking for hours before bed, no caffeine or high amounts of sugar. There is literally nothing else to try.

Do you think the Unisom will keep me from healing? I ask because my husband and I are unsure that we’re done having children. When I’m pregnant, I typically take multiple nausea meds that aren't recommended for people in withdrawal, yet I can’t wait years and years for complete healing. Trying to figure if this chapter is closed for good in my life has been heartbreaking. I understand that you, as well as many others don’t have every answer, but I’d love your opinion, Chippy.

By Sara · Yesterday at 01:11 PM1 day
Sleep in WD

We respect members choices to do what they think is right. For the benefit of others reading this though, Unisom is psychoactive and taking it isn't advisable.

By Chippy · Yesterday at 08:58 AM1 day
Sleep in WD

I’ve seen a few stories over on SA and some YouTube videos of people discussing insomnia. Granted I only like to read or watch success stories, but I’ve seen plenty where people actually got better and are sleeping again. Don’t feel guilty for doing what you need to do to survive. My primary complaint during WD has been sleep issues so I’ve been using a small amount of Unisom for almost 10 months now. I don’t see myself stopping it completely for a long time yet.

By Sara · Sunday at 09:46 PM1 day
Having problems in the middle/lower parts of your taper? I think I might know why (maybe)...

Hello @graininthegrooves What you say is interesting; I'd noted the 'bulge' as you call it (with citalopram), but didn't have the mental capacity to look into it any further. For similar reasons I may have misunderstood some of what you write, so forgive me if I have this wrong.
If your argument is that tracking SERT occupancy , rather than dose, might be a more accurate guide to a smooth taper, that seems reasonable. Dose is used as a proxy for SERT occupancy after all. Obviously, as @LostinCanada says, it is all much more complicated than this, and SERT occupancy is only part of the story, but if this method provides a warning that a particular reduction may have greater functional effect than the last similar reduction, and indicate a smaller cut that might be a good thing.
One of the problems is the unpredictability of symtoms, and how they correlate to dose reductions. Waves just seem to happen... Listening to you body often means shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted!
Also, one issue I've just realised is the difference in bioavailability of tablets and solution (at least for citalopram- one contains the chlroide and the other the hydrobromide). I did know this when I started taking drops, and transitioned accordingly, but hadn't really thought about this in calculating reductions. The 25% in 'strength' means that the current SERT occupancy is quite a lot higher than I thought- and this of course would be relevant to the 'bulge'. (it also means my 'sentence' is longer than I thought!).
Let's just leave it with LIC- it's all complicated! Anyway, thanks for your posts- it's good to ponder these things.

By RedRobin · Sunday at 05:42 PM2 days
New Scientist Article

Thanks for posting this @Mamgu, I sometimes buy the New Scientist, so might pick up a copy this week. (not that this should be a 'new' scientific discovery though!).
How are you getting on? Looks like you've hit sticky patch with your taper. It's odd that we can go merrily (haha!) along reducing regularly, then hit a wall- probably because previous cuts hace caught up with us I suppose. Perhaps the change to autumn and cooler temperatures will bring some relief. It's certainly been a challenging summer for those of us who don't like too much heat!

By RedRobin · Sunday at 11:46 AM2 days
Having problems in the middle/lower parts of your taper? I think I might know why (maybe)...

This is the key. Everyone is responsible for there own taper, their own research. No one can expect anyone to do it for them. There are risks to any method and it is up to each individual to carry those risks.
If one was adamant about a specific method being superior and it wasn't, then there would be culpability. Suggestions can be made and you have done that. People can read your ideas and decide @graininthegrooves They can read the Maudsley Deprescribing Guide to see examples. Again the information is out there and it is the individuals choice.
Paroxetine doesn't have the bulge that you mention....and as I have shown in the Paroxetine topic I wrote, there are numerous variables involved. To just look at SERT would be an oversimplification.
These drugs do not work based on logic, reason or mathematics so we need to be adaptable no matter what approach we take.

By LostinCanada · Friday at 03:33 PM4 days

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